Jordan Peterson thread

Colonel_Klinck said:
Yeah he makes some good points. From reading that I do wonder if Fuller is religious. He seemed drawn to JBP in part because of his talks on religion. That is what left me disinterested in JBP tbh, he always seemed to come back to it and I just can't take anyone who bangs on about religion seriously. When he leaves that out he can be quite interesting. Also I've never bought into 'father hunger'. I'm a 52 year old man and I don't feel emasculated in any way by society. That is the problem with conservatives, they don't want change, too many of them would be happy if society moved back to to the patriarchy that it was 70+ years ago. Man at the head of the family, the woman at home raising the children, cooking his dinner for when he gets home. Sorry but society evolves (thank ****) and it isn't the 1950s anymore.
Click to expand...
You say this about it being old hat and how people lived 70+ years ago but it was like that for a reason. If your family life still works to some of the ways that ot was then naturally that's how the family will function. For example, I work 5 or 6 days a week flat out (even in this weather) as a self employed carpenter. My wife shares responsibility of the kids with her mum as she does a bit of work herself.

The point I'm getting at here is that my dinner is 90% of the time cooked by my wife and it's ready when I get home and she does 90% of the child care and this works for us as that's the way it's got to be, it doesnt really work any other way round unfortunately. Her dedication to the children means that they have a balanced upbringing and my dedication to my work means that no one really wants for anything. The kids are still young so this may change as they get older but there is nothing wrong with living your life like this as a family, it just works a lot of the time.

I also have to take the lead on most decisions whether I like that or not as my wife doesnt want to have the final say on a lot of future decisions. This doesn't mean that she doesn't have a voice and we will always discuss things together but more often than not I have it take the lead and this does put me at the forefront of decision making.


My wife is a strong independent woman who is happy 99% of the time, we just know what works for us. Call it old fashioned or maybe just what works to get on and achieve in life together as a family and as much as it will allow us to achieve as individuals.
 
dowie said:
That's clearly not true, no evidence, no hard data, no research? He's published plenty of academic papers. No scholarship? He was a professor at Harvard and Toronto.

There are plenty of things to criticise him over but at least make it credible, he's not just some random YouTuber with no qualifications - also what makes him alt right?

It seems like you're just making things up.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. No, I meant that Twitter account owner, not Peterson. Count Wokula, or whatever it's called.
 
azazl187 said:
You say this about it being old hat and how people lived 70+ years ago but it was like that for a reason. If your family life still works to some of the ways that ot was then naturally that's how the family will function. For example, I work 5 or 6 days a week flat out (even in this weather) as a self employed carpenter. My wife shares responsibility of the kids with her mum as she does a bit of work herself.

The point I'm getting at here is that my dinner is 90% of the time cooked by my wife and it's ready when I get home and she does 90% of the child care and this works for us as that's the way it's got to be, it doesnt really work any other way round unfortunately. Her dedication to the children means that they have a balanced upbringing and my dedication to my work means that no one really wants for anything. The kids are still young so this may change as they get older but there is nothing wrong with living your life like this as a family, it just works a lot of the time.
Click to expand...

Yes but that is hopefully is a choice you made together. If she was able to earn more money than you, then you remaining at home could also be an option if she would rather work. Its the man work, women home, default that I'm talking about. Its a choice but there is movement to make it the default again that I have issue with.
 
Last edited:
Colonel_Klinck said:
Yes but that is hopefully is a choice you made together. If she was able to earn more money than you, then you remaining at home could also be an option if she would rather work. Its the man work, women home, default that I'm talking about. Its a choice but there is movement to make it the default again, that I have issue with.
Click to expand...
I understand that but whether you like it or not, it works a lot of the time and it's very easy to get mixed up with the politics of it. People spend too much time complicating things and that tends to end in tears for a lot of couples with kids.

Its also a fact that with young children especially it's healthier for the mum to say at home and the man go out to work as the maternal instinct is in most cases much stronger with the woman and the paternal instant from the man's point of view is to get out and provide and protect our wife and kids.

Again that sounds old fashioned but instinct will always trump any view point because it's built into our DNA.

Dont get me wrong, if I could press a reset button and my wife given the option for me to stay home.and she go out to work fill time she wouldn't take it when the kids are at their most "challenging" but instinctively we both knows she does a better job with the kids and I do a better job of not being there and working
 
Wife earns 3 times what I do. So I quit work to do childcare for a bit after her mat leave was up. worked part time for myself doing small web developer projects. Worked great for us. Now both full-time again now kids are older. :)
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Yes but that is hopefully is a choice you made together. If she was able to earn more money than you, then you remaining at home could also be an option if she would rather work. Its the man work, women home, default that I'm talking about. Its a choice but there is movement to make it the default again that I have issue with.
Click to expand...
What movement is this? I'm not aware of any.
 
chroniclard said:
Wife earns 3 times what I do. So I quit work to do childcare for a bit after her mat leave was up. worked part time for myself doing small web developer projects. Worked great for us. Now both full-time again now kids are older. :)
Click to expand...
That's great for you guys and it's really good that it worked out fine and your skills and general demeanor allowed for the arrangement.

I just know for me it wouldnt work. The kids would drive me up the wall and I often say to my wife that looking after the kids is harder than doing my job a lot of the time when they are being difficult which unfortunately is a lot of the time
 
Lysander said:
Oh dear. No, I meant that Twitter account owner, not Peterson. Count Wokula, or whatever it's called.
Click to expand...

Ah ok, you said youtube so it wasn't really clear. Still, I'm not sure what is alt right about it? And the thread does cite hard data re: youtube views. It seems like quite flawed criticism tbh.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
This demasculation fallacy crap. Men feeling there is no place for them in todays society. The Proud Boys are the manifestation of this, proud to be alfa men in control, with their women back in the house where they belong :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Thats not quite true is it. Hes arguing against the current rhetoric that anything that is traditionally masculine is toxic and bad and that "real men" do X, Y and Z. There is a place for the understanding that plenty of traditional male behaviour is not good but plenty of it is. That men and women are not the same and thats not a bad thing.

The proud boys are nothing to do with this and are just a bunch of man-babies who like playing with guns to excite their power fantasy of being Jonn Wayne. There are millions of Americans who are similar but wouldn't want their names associated with something like the proud boys. They fill quite a niche space.
 
fez said:
Thats not quite true is it. Hes arguing against the current rhetoric that anything that is traditionally masculine is toxic and bad and that "real men" do X, Y and Z". There is a place for the understanding that plenty of traditional male behaviour is not good but plenty of it is. That men and women are not the same and thats not a bad thing.

The proud boys are nothing to do with this and are just a bunch of man-babies who like playing with guns to excite their power fantasy of being Jonn Wayne. There are millions of Americans who are similar but wouldn't want their names associated with something like the proud boys. They fill quite a niche space.
Click to expand...

There is no such main stream rhetoric. That is why I said its a fallacy. It seems some men want time to stand still or move backwards, which is why I mentioned the 1950s. Sorry that isn't how society works, it evolves. Peterson wants these traditional values to remain. I'm not sure why people have described him as a liberal, he isn't, he's socially and religiously a conservative.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
There is no such main stream rhetoric. That is why I said its a fallacy. It seems some men want time to stand still or move backwards, which is why I mentioned the 1950s. Sorry that isn't how society works, it evolves. Peterson wants these traditional values to remain. I'm not sure why people have described him as a liberal, he isn't, he's socially and religiously a conservative.
Click to expand...

He's like most normal people, he has a collection of ideas that don't necessarily fit into a nice box. Some of his values are traditional and others are not. There are still plenty of men and women who very much adhere to more traditional values and gender roles because they find more happiness in them than modern ones. There are still lots of people who think that modern feminism has gone off course.

Also, liberal in the US is not liberal in the same way as much of Europe so these labels are very hard to have a reasoned debate on.

Personally hes like most people in my eyes. Says things I agree with and others that I don't. For some reason people have to label someone good or bad rather than "its complicated".
 
chroniclard said:
Are these "traditional values" or just outdated repressing women values.....cant we just let people choose what suits them/what they want to do. :confused: Perfectly fine whatever people want to do.
Click to expand...

Thats not how people work though. Far too many people think there is a wrong and a right opinion on everything. This seems more prevalent than ever and ironically its the younger generation who preach tolerance that are often the least tolerant of "the wrong opinion".

I think the major change has been the intolerance of discussing any issue that people feel very polarised on and the ease with which people can surround themselves with like minded others who will simply reinforce and not challenge their views. Both sides like to do this.
 
chroniclard said:
Are these "traditional values" or just outdated repressing women values.....cant we just let people choose what suits them/what they want to do. :confused: Perfectly fine whatever people want to do.
Click to expand...

Well, we can now yes, the reality of most of human history is that it made far more sense for women to look after children and men to provide for the family. It was essentially a symbiotic relationship that worked the best for the family unit, only now it's being categorised as women being oppressed for some bizarre reason, as if men going out and doing long days of physical labour in dangerous jobs weren't also "oppressed". It's such a ******* stupid thought process.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
There is no such main stream rhetoric. That is why I said its a fallacy. It seems some men want time to stand still or move backwards, which is why I mentioned the 1950s. Sorry that isn't how society works, it evolves. Peterson wants these traditional values to remain. I'm not sure why people have described him as a liberal, he isn't, he's socially and religiously a conservative.
Click to expand...
No he doesn't. All he is saying is that even in the most Liberal Scandinavian countries, women are still drawn to certain professions, and this is the reason for the gender pay gap. Not because women are payed less for the same job, but because they WANT to do certain jobs.
 
i-bert said:
No he doesn't. All he is saying is that even in the most Liberal Scandinavian countries, women are still drawn to certain professions, and this is the reason for the gender pay gap. Not because women are payed less for the same job, but because they WANT to do certain jobs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, which is interesting because it will be interesting to find out in 20 years how the genders are split in different careers. Personally I think that men and women are fundamentally different and thats not entirely a result of society's gender norms. Who knows honestly. The fact that in the most gender equal societies there are still strong preferences for certain careers for both genders suggests something for sure.

Feminism at its heart was all about choice. The choice to live your life how you wanted to without discrimination or limitation. We are very much near that goal IMO. You cannot however give women complete parity in the workplace without punishing another group when it comes to things like having children.

Its quite funny how some of the women at my partners work think its their right to have first dibs on the school holidays simply because they have children or that they should be exempt from certain obligations of the job because they have children. What about those that choose not to have them?
 
fez said:
Thats not how people work though. Far too many people think there is a wrong and a right opinion on everything. This seems more prevalent than ever and ironically its the younger generation who preach tolerance that are often the least tolerant of "the wrong opinion".

I think the major change has been the intolerance of discussing any issue that people feel very polarised on and the ease with which people can surround themselves with like minded others who will simply reinforce and not challenge their views. Both sides like to do this.
Click to expand...

I'm not defending the younger generations opinions but it is their job to push society in directions the older generations may not wish to go. Every generation does this to one extent or another. Although my generation spent most of our time hugging everyone as we danced our arses off high on ecstasy every weekend :cry: The late 80s early 90s were amazing.

Polarisation is imo a side effect of the internet and social media. Its so easy to find likeminded people and just stick with them. It isn't helped that the major media companies actively push people into such groups and magnify the extremes in these groups for clicks/$
 
  • Like
Reactions: fez
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom