"Just stop oil"

b0rn2sk8 said:
Given most fossil fuels are consumed by 'the west' and its 'the west' who are the ones aggressively pursuing things like electric cars (bar Japan), it may happen a lot sooner than you think.
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Depends on your definition of "the west" tbh, this graph puts the middle east head and shoulders above the rest of the world, and they don't give a toss about electrification or saving the planet:

www.statista.com

Fossil fuel per capita consumption by country 2023 | Statista

Qatar has the highest per capita fossil fuel consumption in the world.
www.statista.com www.statista.com


Edit:

This shows a very different picture however, so who do you believe?

ourworldindata.org

Fossil fuel consumption per capita

Fossil fuel consumption per capita is measured as the average consumption of energy from coal, oil and gas, in kilowatt-hours per person.
ourworldindata.org ourworldindata.org

Edit the edit:

This one's from 2017, look at China's consumption lol.

blog.resourcewatch.org

Which Countries Use the Most Fossil Fuels? - Resource Watch Blog

Although renewable energy is growing rapidly around the world, fossil fuels still make up a majority of the world’s energy use. In 2017, 81 percent of the energy the world consumed was oil, coal and natural gas. Nearly 15 billion metric tons of fossil fuels are consumed every year.
blog.resourcewatch.org blog.resourcewatch.org


I doubt we'll ever truly know tbh.
 
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Looking at countries without factoring in their size is dishonest at best but to state the obvious, more people = more fuel used. If normalise those numbers per capita instead of looking at totals, the likes of the USA and the UK start looking pretty poor and that is after we outsourced most of our dirty industry to China.

China's electrification efforts are actually going gangbusters and accelerating well past our own. For example BEV market share in China is 24%, its 16% in the UK.

The middle east is very high because they refine fossil fuels for half the globe and refining fuel consumes is very CO2 intensive. Who do you think produces all the extra diesel to cover our deficit? It's the middle east.
 
jet fuel tax Hadn't remembered the jet fuel tax was zero ( guess I can't buy it for my car though) but, does seem it was a controversial topic at last years COP, it unfairly biases to air travel.

At the end of COP 27 held in November 2022 in Egypt, 196 countries agreed to create a funddedicated to the losses and damages caused in countries affected by climate change. Shortlythereafter, President Macron announced the organization of an international summit in Paris in June2023, aimed at proposing a new financial pact with vulnerable countries, facilitating their access tothe financing needed to deal with the consequences of recent and future crises. Among the fourworking groups set up to prepare for this summit, one is dedicated to mobilising innovativefinancing for countries vulnerable to climate change. Mobilising both the climate and developmentagendas, the reflections on this innovative financing should make it possible to answer manyquestions, particularly on the source of the resources to be mobilised and how they will be allocated.Taxes on jet fuel and maritime transport are two potential sources of financial resources to beconsidered
...

The average effective CO2 price applied in the G20 countries for jet fuel is currently €8.9 per tonne.This compares with €78.7 per tonne for diesel and €67.3 per tonne for petrol. A tax on jet fuel wouldreduce this gap, which significantly alters price signals and distorts public and private incentives forfinancing, promoting or using transport modes. In addition to its environmental dimension, this gapis particularly unfair because air transport remains a service consumed mainly by the richesthouseholds in the richest countries, despite the recent development of so-called “low-cost” airlines(Büchs, 2021).
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China's electrification efforts are actually going gangbusters and accelerating well past our own. For example BEV market share in China is 24%, its 16% in the UK.
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If only China could fix their problem of battery recycling and generating electricity without burning so much coal coal.
 
Dalandius said:
If only China could fix their problem of battery recycling and generating electricity without burning so much coal coal.
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I don't deny china has a lot of dirty energy production .. however individually per person their carbon footprint is far lower than ours.

add to that lets be honest a huge amount of their carbon footprint is due to making useless crap for the western world..... can we really play holier than thou to them when we are just pushing a lot of our plastic tat manufacture over to them (and then shipping it over in dirty boats).

if they were not making all that use once then bin plastic tat then their energy could go into actually more useful stuff as well as benefitting their own people , and over all would be far cleaner.

note I am not saying I wear a halo here either we have all sorts of junk for our kid.

despite this however my money is on china rapidly improving their clean energy generation.
 
Dalandius said:
If only China could fix their problem of battery recycling and generating electricity without burning so much coal coal.
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Classic ‘yeh by China’ argument which just demonstrates massive ignorance of the issue.

The massive irony is that most of those batteries they produce end up in the west where they are not recycled….

As @bigmike20vt pointed out, out emissions per person in the U.K. are considerably higher than those of a typical Chinese citizen. You have zero moral high ground other than perhaps to point at the USA and say ‘yeh but’.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I don't deny china has a lot of dirty energy production .. however individually per person their carbon footprint is far lower than ours.
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Several billion living like peasants certainly helps. If they all suddenly could afford a flat with climate control, a car, a dishwasher etc. That would make a change.
 
jpaul said:
Todays Ryanair profits e2bn... should be taxing that jet fuel appropriately for it's climate impact.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/11/06/ryanair-profits-hit-218bn/
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I know I’ve responded to you before on this but to re-iterate:

1) you can’t tax jet fuel without first ripping up an inter international treaty which literally enables air travel to other countries. There is a certain irony behind the fact you literally can’t fly anywhere worth flying if you tax jet fuel.

2) We already tax air travel, it’s call air passenger duty and the government literally just reduced it on domestic flights.

3) do you honestly thing any additional tax will come from their profits rather than being passed onto the customer given it will apply to all airlines and therefore have no impact on their competitiveness.

Given our recent experience ripping up international treaties on a whim, I’d suggest it’s not a good idea. Taxing jet fuels requires all the signatories of the Chicago Convention to agree to do it for it to happen.

Very late edit: autocorrect…
 
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I dont get the connection between smashing glass in front of a painting and Oil.

What am i missing ?

All seems very counter productive to their cause but I guess that has never seemed to bother them as of course they know best.
 
Mint8 said:
I dont get the connection between smashing glass in front of a painting and Oil.

What am i missing ?

All seems very counter productive to their cause but I guess that has never seemed to bother them as of course they know best.
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Getting attention I suppose. Most people will just shake they're heads and think they're mental.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Classic ‘yeh by China’ argument which just demonstrates massive ignorance of the issue.

The massive irony is that most of those batteries they produce end up in the west where they are not recycled….

As @bigmike20vt pointed out, out emissions per person in the U.K. are considerably higher than those of a typical Chinese citizen. You have zero moral high ground other than perhaps to point at the USA and say ‘yeh but’.
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Never said it was a China only problem but China as a lot more batteries to recycle (they have been using electric vehicles longer than we have in the "west") and they have yet to find a cost effective solution to battery recycling. If they did figure that out it would help everyone.

I also agree with @bigmike20vt and may be we should stop outsourcing production to China then we would been on better moral ground when we talk about China's pollution. Pollution created by China when they make our stuff is our pollution!!
While China products "cheap" stuff with "cheap" polluting energy it is hard to get it produced at home when the energy cost is a lot higher and I'm not sure we could scale up greenly either.
 
Dalandius said:
I also agree with @bigmike20vt and may be we should stop outsourcing production to China then we would been on better moral ground when we talk about China's pollution. Pollution created by China when they make our stuff is our pollution!!
While China products "cheap" stuff with "cheap" polluting energy it is hard to get it produced at home when the energy cost is a lot higher and I'm not sure we could scale up greenly either.
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'Our stuff' is mainly elective purchases which are not essential to a happy life. Some things you can only get as made in China I agree, however people should always ask themselves "do i really need this"? Nine times out of ten the answer will be no. If people do stop buying from half way around the world, companies will stop ordering it. And most of it is ****.

This really is much more important than a couple of extra oil fields developed closer to home. The UK has the top three largest windfarms in its waters and has reduced energy use far more than most of Europe so we are doing our bit.
 
Diddums said:
Getting ridiculous now, as usual our gov are just sitting around with their fingers up their arses whilst blaming each other for everything.
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At what point do we say, this human life is more important and act as such?

The act of holding up a blue light ambulance is atrocious. If you do this, I am sorry but you deserve to be hit by said ambulance and left in the road.
 
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