"Just stop oil"

Nasher said:
The whole "green economy" is being artificially propped up by governments. For the consumer anything green costs more. That isn't going to last long-term.

The entire world economy and maybe even civilization itself needs to change. In the same way we went through the industrial revolution. That won't happen this generation, maybe not even over the next two. We need new scientific breakthroughs actually being put in to practice, but in modern times it's very rare.
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You mean like fossil fuels gets subsidised to keep them on top?
This was before covid so that can't be used as an excuse.
 
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Hagar said:
There is no such thing as green electricity. It all provides heat to the atmosphere.
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Heat isn’t the issue, see the first law of thermodynamics.

It’s CO2 and other greenhouse gases house gases which are emitted into the atmosphere which trap heat which would be other wise reflected/lost back out to space. Hence the ‘greenhouse effect’.

‘Green energy’ is just a term to mean electricity generation which does not emit CO2 at the point of generation.

This is really basic stuff.
 
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Nasher said:
The whole "green economy" is being artificially propped up by governments. For the consumer anything green costs more. That isn't going to last long-term.

The entire world economy and maybe even civilization itself needs to change. In the same way we went through the industrial revolution. That won't happen this generation, maybe not even over the next two. We need new scientific breakthroughs actually being put in to practice, but in modern times it's very rare.
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The really funny part is that we consider lemmings to be completely nuts.

Things will only change when everyone, every individual is prepared to make that sacrifice. That's means that we won't and most of our family trees are about to get pruned.

There is no way to tell how bad this will be. I suppose absolute worst case is the Great Dying 250 million years ago. A flood basalt eruption poured co2 in to the atmosphere, changing the climate. The ocean currents stopped and the sea turned to sludge. About 75% of all species died out. It took about a million years to recover from that little mess.
 
every individual is prepared to make that sacrifice
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Most of the panic is basically a distraction from the real problem. Too many humans wanting too much stuff. Most 1st World countries have a declining birth rate (good), but then Politian's and commerce demand 'growth' (bad), so they import from other countries. When China reaches 1st world status it'll be interesting to see what happens as they bit the bullet years ago an forced a limited birth rate. Those children are now adults.
 
So basically what everyone is discussing all routes back to abusive unchecked capitalism - which makes sense.

Billionares cannot exist & as said above, all of us 'upgrading' everything in our lives and all 'growing' takes from the environment & what we used to have is discarded - to the magical place that is 'away' i.e. in a landfill for a million years.

We need to change our economic rules to make this happen but strangely the richest won't allow this and they tend to control everything.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
‘Green energy’ is just a term to mean electricity generation which does not emit CO2 at the point of generation.

This is really basic stuff.
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'Tis a good enough reason not to have eight billion human animals doing the same thing, emitting CO2 to the atmosphere.

However I am doing my bit, brought the turkey home on the pushbike today as with all my Christmas shopping. No car usage. Even if I do turn on the gas boiler in the evening for a couple of hours.
 
Interestingly enough, boilers (and space heating in general) is probably the most overlooked source of emissions by individuals. They are probably the second most impactful thing you have which directly contributed to your total emissions.

I’m not saying this to suggest you are not doing your part, it’s more to raise awareness generally of what is and isn’t impactful.

Ripping out a gas (and especially an oil) boiler and replacing it with a heat pump pays back from a CO2 perspective in less than one heating season. That number will only keep getting smaller as the carbon intensity of the grid reduces.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Interestingly enough, boilers (and space heating in general) is probably the most overlooked source of emissions by individuals. They are probably the second most impactful thing you have which directly contributed to your total emissions.

I’m not saying this to suggest you are not doing your part, it’s more to raise awareness generally of what is and isn’t impactful.

Ripping out a gas (and especially an oil) boiler and replacing it with a heat pump pays back from a CO2 perspective in less than one heating season. That number will only keep getting smaller as the carbon intensity of the grid reduces.
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We are one of the lowest take-up countries in the Western world, and for good reason. It's relatively expensive to retrofit to our houses, most of which have unsuitable existing heating systems and insulation, which makes conversion very expensive.

Personally, I think there is a better way for many householders and it would start with a decent energy policy... but government after government just kick the can down the road.

Anyway, getting back to the point, I do have sympathy with Just Stop Oil, their hearts are in the right place. They are incredibly worried about the future, and that demands strong action. The problem, of course, is that people are already fully aware of climate change and they don't want to change, so all this "proactive campaigning" is just seriously annoying people. I am afraid that Just Stop Oil need to back down and accept that they can't force people to want to change.

Should they end up in prison? Unfortunately, yes. Freedom of speech is one thing, causing criminal damage is entirely different.
 
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SpellowHouse said:
The really funny part is that we consider lemmings to be completely nuts.

Things will only change when everyone, every individual is prepared to make that sacrifice. That's means that we won't and most of our family trees are about to get pruned.

There is no way to tell how bad this will be. I suppose absolute worst case is the Great Dying 250 million years ago. A flood basalt eruption poured co2 in to the atmosphere, changing the climate. The ocean currents stopped and the sea turned to sludge. About 75% of all species died out. It took about a million years to recover from that little mess.
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A lot of Brits are deciding not to have kids, which is a BIG emissions saving, whole lifetimes worth. But the government has decided to import new people instead. Because their whole economic policy is based on endless "growth".
 
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Trump seemed to be calling it correctly - eu stop illicitly buying russian oil and prolonging the war (& defense investment) and either drill it yourselves or buy from us, to balance trade.

(... Heat pump evangelism from the pulpit of tax payer subsidy yeh)
 
jpaul said:
Trump seemed to be calling it correctly - eu stop illicitly buying russian oil and prolonging the war (& defense investment) and either drill it yourselves or buy from us, to balance trade.

(... Heat pump evangelism from the pulpit of tax payer subsidy yeh)
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Not all usa crude is suitable for our uses, and certainly not for the usa themselves.
 
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