"Just stop oil"

Devilman said:
Precisely this...
They should fear the punishment for their actions, not the individuals themselves.. This is what keeps most of us from committing crimes... It is NOT the fear of the police or the officer(s) themselves, it is the fear of the punishment that will follow, which comes via the courts not the police.

Should we fear the mailman when they bring us a parking fine for that time we parked on double-yellow lines? Or should we fear the fine itself?
What prevents most people from illegally parking? Is it "OMG THE POLICE!!!111" or is it "Urgh, I really don't want to get a fine for this" ?

I think it's fair to assume that most people would say it's the latter of the two.
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What commits most from committing crimes is they are normal and also they FEAR the punishment they would get before they did it.

You keep saying punishment for their actions that means they’ve already done it ffs

Fear stops people from putting crime into ‘action’
 
Uther said:
One things for certain, the idiots gluing themselves to roads, climbing bridges, vandalising paintings and buildings, and pouring human excrement over monuments have no fear of the police or courts.
I'm not sure that's a good thing really.
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Agreed and that is a problem, they are not fearing the consequences that should follow their criminality, because they have seen time and time again so many others getting away with it.

The police are definitely part of the problem, they really should be making arrests when there are clear-cut cases of criminality (vandalism, endangering the public etc..) but the real issue is the lack of punishment for people committing such acts.
There needs to be jail time for the people doing it, I'm pretty certain that if what others presuming to be the case, that a lot of these people are "trustfund kids" and the like, the very LAST thing they would want, is to get locked up...
Fines they can pay, but removing them from their precious bubble for a couple years locked up in prison is the kind of deterrent that I believe would stop a lot of these kinds of attention-grabbing "protests".
 
labbby said:
What commits most from committing crimes is they are normal and also they FEAR the punishment they would get before they did it.

You keep saying punishment for their actions that means they’ve already done it ffs

Fear stops people from putting crime into ‘action’
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We actually have specific laws that are in place to deal with people who are "looking to commit a crime but haven't yet" such as "going equipped" .

As such, a person "looking to commit a crime" has very often actually broken a law in doing so (such as the "going equipped" example above).

Fear of the police is not the answer.. Appropriate laws and punishment through the legal system is the deterrent and as such it is that which they should fear, not "Fear the Police"
 
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Tuppy_Glossop said:
I'm all for a police officer defending themselves within the law, but never outside the law. If we don't like that, we should be changing the law, not allowing indemnity, which so often leads to abuse of privilege.
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Don’t get me wrong, there are some (not sure how many these days ) real bag eggs in the job that need getting rid of but what I don’t think most realise what goes on when you’re all asleep at night
 
The court decides if they have done it, not the police. A criminal probably assesses the risk of being caught, the risk of the police legally gathering enough admissible evidence, the risk of the CPS agreeing it is worthwhile to proceed, of the court finding them guilty, and finally the risk of their mitigation being inadequate. These are a lot of things to line up, leading to low deterrence. Allowing the police to shortcut this is not my idea of a good solution. I respect your opinion if you think it is, but I don't agree.
 
Devilman said:
We actually have specific laws that are in place to deal with people who are "looking to commit a crime but haven't yet" such as "going equipped" .

As such, a person "looking to commit a crime" has very often actually broken a law in doing so (such as the "going equipped" example above).

Fear of the police is not the answer.. Appropriate laws and punishment through the legal system is the deterrent, not "Fear the Police"
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Ok you are an idiot going equipped (sec.1 PACE) means Police need to stop someone in a ‘public place’ with such an object that would allow a crime to take place.

If I'm your neighbour and sitting in my own abode thinking I’m going to break into your house what law is stopping me thinking that ?
 
m4rmite said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Police remove and arrest M25 Dartford Crossing protesters

Climate change activists on the QEII bridge at Dartford leads to two days of disruption on the M25.
www.bbc.co.uk
Unsure if anyone has mentioned it but the 2 bridge protesters have been arrested.
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The disruption must have cost thousands, so a starting point the fines should cover every penny of that, plus a punishment fine, plus jail time. Maybe the message would get through.
 
labbby said:
Ok you are an idiot going equipped (sec.1 PACE) means Police need to stop someone in a ‘public place’ with such an object that would allow a crime to take place.

If I'm your neighbour and sitting in my own abode thinking I’m going to break into your house what law is stopping me thinking that ?
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How about... the fear of getting caught, charged, convicted and then punished by the legal system with possibly jail time if you went through with it?

But lemme guess, you'd fear the copper coming round to catch you doing it, not the consequences that would follow if you actually chose to go through with it?
 
Devilman said:
How about... the fear of getting caught, charged, convicted and then punished by the legal system with possibly jail time if you went through with it?

But lemme guess, you'd fear the copper coming round to catch you doing it, not the consequences that would follow if you actually chose to go through with it?
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I’m glad you’ve come round to people fearing committing a crime before they do it. You are starting to understand
 
Anyway. I went there loaded with chains and padlocks ready to dish out the pain but sadly they were all gone.

Just as well, I could only fit 6 lengths of chain and 6 padlocks in my wife's Vespa.
 
the problem is what is to stop 2 more morons doing it again next week .... which is why I agree with the above, any fine should be substantial with hopefully some jail time and significant community service after

I don't see how they can get a long sentence however . prisons are already over capacity with rapists and what not not really getting the time they deserve imo.

these people are misguided and stupid but they are not "evil" which is why I personally think the bulk of the punishment should be the fine and community service with *some* jail time to get a taste.
 
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bigmike20vt said:
the problem is what is to stop 2 more morons doing it again next week .... which is why I agree with the above, any fine should be substantial with hopefully some jail time and significant community service after

I don't see how they can get a long sentence however . prisons are already over capacity with rapists and what not not really getting the time they deserve imo.

these people are misguided and stupid but they are not "evil" which is why I personally think the bulk of the punishment should be the fine and community service with *some* jail time to get a taste.
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As someone who has had 2 days of journeying completely mucked up by this event, your words about others doing it next week is the biggest concern and issue with it all.
Suella Braverman and her statements this afternoon are horrendous, I do not agree with their method of protest (nor our police response), but also do not agree with the anti protest bill she is trying to put through because of this.
We need stronger and more responsive police in these situations, not legislation to say dont do it and become a naughty boy/girl, they'll still bloody well do it.
 
Saw a locked reddit thread this evening (can't find it now), pretty much all the top comments and expanded conversations were in complete support of them and most objections were replied with 'well what do you expect them to do to get their point across'. Angered the hell out of me that it was locked to new comments, but was still trending with absolute BS of encouraging/defending the behaviour.
 
S.A.S said:
Saw a locked reddit thread this evening (can't find it now), pretty much all the top comments and expanded conversations were in complete support of them and most objections were replied with 'well what do you expect them to do to get their point across'. Angered the hell out of me that it was locked to new comments, but was still trending with absolute BS of encouraging/defending the behaviour.
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Sounds about right for Reddit, most people on there are a flock of sheep
 
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