I find people are very distracted today. Too distracted IMO.
Do you hold a full driving license? Have passed your car driving test?
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London pollution & ULEZ
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
I find people are very distracted today. Too distracted IMO.
Do you hold a full driving license? Have passed your car driving test?
Distracted by their car's instrumentation? Reading the speedo is a distraction?
Can you clarify what you're saying and why my replies to you were missing the point?
Not all roads are the same. 20 mph on residential, single lane roads have been 20mph almost forever now. I doubt many people are complaining about them.
What people are complaining about, are roads which have been 30mph for ages, multi-lane and wide being made 20mph. They are genuinely difficult to drive at 20mph because it is a completely unsuitable speed limit, driving in second gear at 20mph.
Try driving at 10mph on a wide road and come back to me with a comment, "you should be able to drive at any speed".
Your post before is also revealing, saying if there are animals, pedestrians, parked cars or narrow roads, the "20 is plenty". So outside of dual carriageways and motorways, everywhere should be 20 is basically your claim.
You shouldn't have to read a speedo to judge a vehicle's speed that is appropriate for a road. I genuinely couldn't tell you when a car is doing 18mph, 20mph or 22mph without a speedo. I could tell the two extremes there apart, but not a 2mph difference.
Speed limits used to be set by looking at what sensible people automatically drive at without the need for a speedo.
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I've not followed this bit of the topic but interestingly there is a huge difference between the number of people speeding in a 20 and a 30 - from something I posted the other day: "the average speed on 20MPH roads is 24.1MPH while the average speed on 30MPH roads is 31. Over 80% of drivers exceed the speed limits in 20 zones compared to about half of drivers in 30s."
Also in real world conditions 20 limits are actually not that great for the environment - especially a lot of the most polluting vehicles on the road tend to have poor efficiency, sometimes twice as bad, around the real world traffic dynamics in 20 limits.
I rarely need to reference my speedo to stick to 30s, 20s are a whole different story - I'm definitely looking at my speedo far more when trying to stick to 20. Doesn't help that much of what I drive isn't really "geared" for it.
Might be worth reading the post once more, but just to clarify, you don’t drive or live in a ULEZ
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A sensible speed limit is one that a sensible driver would voluntarily and automatically adhere to. The speed limit would then result in a minority of drivers breaking it who can be pursued.
The 20mph limit on a lot of A roads and B roads, has nearly everyone including police cars and ambulances breaking it. What does it achieve other than cause massive variance between the few that adhere to 20mph and the majority that continue to do high 20mph.
I've read your posts multiple times and when I asked for clarification you went off on a tangent about general distractions.
I'm not convinced you even know what your point is, or why my subsequent replies to you were "missing it" (somehow?)
Well 24.1 mph is less than 31 mph, so it's not entirely wasted effort. It has the effect of slowing people down somewhat.
And the environmental angle becomes moot when more cars are electric. Then there's just the speed and the safety consideration.
Now if someone comes along and does a comprehensive study, which statistically proves that 20mph is less safe than 30mph, I'll accept that. I won't be holding my breath, mind.
At the moment the main complaint seems to be that 20mph "isn't fun" or is an assault on personal freedoms or whatever.
Personally don't care as such if the limit is 20 or 30 or whatever - but it should be done sensibly and for the right reasons - far too often behind these campaigns for limit changes is an assault on the car driver rather than wanting to see the best possible outcome.
Clarification, Do you even drive a car?
I don't think your argument, nor your ability to articulate it clearly, should hinge on my own personal circumstances. I'll answer that question should it become relevant in some way.
P.S. Non-drivers have a very obvious stake in road safety, driving standards, and speed limits.
You can put nearly any tyres or brake pads on a car. So wouldn't make sense to.
If you did rate tyres and brakes, would be hard to police realistically. Also, you would have a nice lawsuit if safety was compromised to reduce particulate emissions slightly. Note the hardest wearing tyres and brakes, aren't the best ones.
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True that in terms of emissions electric cars change the situation there - although cars are also pretty bad for tyre particulates (especially EVs) and brake particulates (a little less so EVs due to regen, etc.). I don't see some of the worst polluters like trucks being replaced by EVs for a long time though.
I think there is another risk as well with widespread 20s in that currently when people encounter a 20 limit more drivers than not will increase their watchfulness for the reason for the 20 limit - with them more common people will be like *yawn* another 20 and it decreases their effectiveness around places like schools.
Tyres have emission ratings. I’m not sure if those are part of the cars overall rating though. I’d say not as the tyres will change over the cars life.
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Do you drive? Simple question.
Flip side of that argument is that when all residential areas are 20, not only will there be no confusion as to what the limit is (did I miss a signpost?), but drivers will also be more practiced at driving at 20 mph
Also, I think this has to be considered as part of an overall strategy, including more pedestrianisation, better public transport, greener cars, etc.
I know it's a simple question
But why does your argument for or against 30/20mph zones depend upon my personal circumstances?
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I know it's a simple question
I’ve not once made any argument for 20-30mph zones. Now you’re just making things up. Having lots of driving experience in lots of different types of cars in different areas would give you some insight past the experience of having cars drives past you in Cornwall.
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