Soldato
This is incorrect. For the majority of vehicles the battery will outlast it. They often find another life as storage or are recycled into new batteries.
London pollution & ULEZ
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
Caporegime
Got to keep those margins up! Right to repair has a lot of resistance from many companies worldwide it appears.
I seen some of EV channels such as Rich Rebuilds,and what companies such as Tesla get away with especially with used cars in the US. Look at some of the rubbish car companes have tried over the last 60 years(like fuel tanks which could easily explode which was exposed by Ralph Nader),the whole Diesel emissions scandal,etc I don't trust their "green credentials" one bit.
EVs should be far easier to make last than ICE cars. Much easier to upgrade too. They have less moving parts,and require less maintenance.
The current EVs seem to be built with too much gadgets,etc which only seem to add to weight,power consumption,complexity and COST. Almost like car companies are using the climate crisis to find another way to jack up margins,and get taxpayers to subsidise their overpriced wares.
If anything it makes me wonder who pushed for out of town shopping centres,cinemas,etc which need a car to get to. Before lots more things could be accessed via public transport.
I honestly think we need a change in how we do things. We need to base things more around ease of use via public transport,walking etc and actually improve public transport. Just throwing EVs at this won't change the fundamental issue of forcing people to NEED cars for so many things.
This especially with the fact so many new car purchases are funded by debt:
UK car finance debt soars to £40bn
Finance debt for new and used cars has risen to £40 billion per year, prompting concerns that consumers may default on agreements amid soaring living costs.
www.am-online.com
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/GettyImages-1388406328-8db55c94d1e6426c910bbaaf3b36b500.jpg)
American Debt: Auto Loan Balances Hit $1.62 Trillion in Q1 2024
Consumer auto loan debt has continued to rise, a result of increased demand, less supply, and higher prices.
£40 billion in the UK and $1.5 trillion in the US. Its getting worse and worse.
Last edited:
Caporegime
The battery might not be buggered in 10 years but the tech will be so it will be scrapped regardless as people will want more range. Plenty more emissions released to produce something new with better range when a replaceable battery pack would have been a far cleaner option.
Caporegime
Exactly. I also can't fathom why people on a tech forum would be against easily upgradeable products. Because it also makes them easier to repair! It also introduces more competition as more companies can offer certified services. Things like the basic car chassis,etc will last decades. A well designed motor could easily last that long too.
Isn't this one of the reason why people build their own desktops on OcUK,rather than buy some Alienware,etc with non-standard parts? Ease of upgrade and repair,instead of throwing away the whole PC. Plus the old parts can be re-used too.
Unfortunately because of companies like Apple and many others,people have gotten too used to soldered together laptops,phones,etc which are essentially disposable and hard to repair. It's the same with home appliances - things like the old Dualit and Kenwood appliances are still repairable today. Lots of newer stuff is disposable for no reason other than making more money.
A lot of this waste either gets dumped or even exported to poorer countries.
Last edited:
Yes. I generally try to avoid buying into locked down platforms or being at the mercy of the manufacturer. It's why I do Android over IOS as just one example. I'm really pro trying to make things user repairable and replaceable with an open ownership. Unfortunately more and more stuff is locked down because it's all about the profit, rather than doing the right thing or making favourable choices for the consumer. Everything is about money.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,657
oh dear........ when will this nonsense end.
the nissan leaf has the worst battery going in modern EVs.... and yet many 2013 cars still have 10 or even 11 bars.out of 12..... hell I almost bought one 12 months ago off a mate. immaculate car ...
and again. these.are relatively awful EV batteries.
it's hilarious you are the one calling people who think EVs can work well are the flat earthers.
but my question to you is.... what is your solution to car pollution..... Hydrogen? or do you not believe in man made climate change and think we should keep buying diesel?
bear in mind Almost all diesel's from 2015 are compliant. most petrol cars under 10 years old are fine.
for older cars which are still in excellent condition rather than scrap them they can be sold to owners in less population dense areas and these can be replaced as they wear out.
I do think however that anyone with a driveway buying a *new* car not considering an EV are daft.
Last edited:
Is that the full story though? Because the car states it has 10 or 11 out of 12 bars, it's all good? People are highly pessimistic of companies that sell us stuff after the way consumers have been treated to maximise profit in the past. Apple's slowing of the phone storm, VW's emissions gate. Would it be such a surprise for manufacturers to lie about battery health in a multi thousand pound vehicle? I expect the real life performance to potentially be worse than it claims. Where are these many 2013 Leaf's you speak of with good health? Have you personally conducted a survey to check 10 year old cars are all good?
I think people with driveways will certainly consider an EV for sure, but given that the infra is still not there, prices of EVs are still very high, range anxiety is there and energy prices high, people will have massive reservations of ploughing thousands into something that might ultimately not be a thing in a decade. EV could become the next Betamax if Hydrogen tech has a breakthrough.
Considered it for about 5 seconds thanks and bought a new petrol. Not a hope in hell I would buy a EV and I have been supplying and designing stuff for them for the past 10 years or more.
Nope not me, will wait till hydrogen takes hold thanks.
Company car it's no brainer due to stupid tax laws but your own purchase....prepare to lose money but
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,657
people argue that on our grid EVs are not clean because we only have up to 50% renewable energy
with that in mind how on earth do you square using H2 in cars given the terrible effiency in making it.? whilst not all our electricity is clean at least EVs.make the best use out of the energy as possible.
hydrogen will play a part in our energy supply and storage as well as as a fuel.... but imo not in small cars, or at least not in the medium term anyway. as it is the vast majority of the H2 used (and we use a lot of it) isn't green anyway. we need to green that up before burning it in cars.
with that in mind how on earth do you square using H2 in cars given the terrible effiency in making it.? whilst not all our electricity is clean at least EVs.make the best use out of the energy as possible.
hydrogen will play a part in our energy supply and storage as well as as a fuel.... but imo not in small cars, or at least not in the medium term anyway. as it is the vast majority of the H2 used (and we use a lot of it) isn't green anyway. we need to green that up before burning it in cars.
Last edited:
Soldato
That’s no different to buying a new car because it’s more economical. People always want more. I don’t expect they will keep pushing range. We have cars already in the 300-400 miles range and I think it will start to level out around 500 miles due to economics.
Soldato
Fossil fuels were 39.3% in the year to date and its decreasing every year.
Caporegime
A diesel will do 800-900 miles 20+ years ago as they will do now.
EV's today today doing 200 miles will be doing 5-600 miles in ten years time. Big difference.
I am in a minority in this country as I drive to Europe at least once a year but on the continent or America I would want an EV that could do 600 miles fully loaded before I would even consider one.
Soldato
The same, we have a new car, warranty runs out in 2030 coincidentally, it does 60-70mpg at sensible throttle openings, cheap to run and insure. I would not do huge mileages in it but I am past that anyway.
The ev comparison with Apple iphone is interesting - if you've looked at some of the munro videos on tear-downs of the tesla battery packs using high pressure dry-ice,
their ev's are not being built for any kind of user replaceable/repairable batteries - so even if tesla are fulifilling USA right to repair legislation that's pretty meaningless.
their ev's are not being built for any kind of user replaceable/repairable batteries - so even if tesla are fulifilling USA right to repair legislation that's pretty meaningless.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,657
some of the Asian EVs have hot swappable batteries. it does make sense if feasible to support this.
Soldato
The thing is most people won’t be driving more than 3-4 hours in one go so you really don’t need that much range. However there are vehicles already coming that have 600-700 miles for those that really want to do that. I also drive Europe, doing 1000+ miles and don’t have issues. I’ll do up to 4 hours and need to stop for food or a break. At that point it just charges while you are doing the other things.
Is that likely? Was doing some cursory reading about hydrogen a couple months back, and it doesn't seem there's much of a push for hydrogen cars. More likely, they were saying, in large, commercial vehicles. Trucks, tractors, heavy equipment.
e: Also that only hydrogen fuel cells are truly zero emissions. Burning hydrogen ala an ICE would produce emissions, and that seems to be getting more attention than fuel cells, lately (Toyota et al).
Last edited:
Soldato
Hydrogen requires 6x the electricity just to make a kWh. It makes more sense to store the energy directly in the battery. (Also hydrogen is still an EV).
Happy to be corrected, but aren't Toyota and others switching to developing hydrogen ICEs? Which are not EVs. And emit NOx.
Soldato
I remain hopeful the technological challenges around this are resolved. NOx is still an emission with gwp so net zero applies to it and you’ll still be banned from any low emission zones. I don’t expect hydrogen ICE to be available or cheap to run for a very long time.
Last edited: