London violence reaching epidemic proportions

Dis86 said:
They managed to make it to oxford street, they can get their arses to museums and libraries throughout the city.
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Yes because walking/taking the tube is EXACTLY the same thing as growing up in in an environment where that's in an way encouraged, or feels like a path you might go down...oh yeah and of course anything arts related in now apparently considered a waste of time and a useless degree according to the govt...and of course nationwide, libraries, museums, cultural venues of all kinds are being closed down.
 
Darujhistan said:
Yes because walking/taking the tube is EXACTLY the same thing as growing up in in an environment where that's in an way encouraged, or feels like a path you might go down...oh yeah and of course anything arts related in now apparently considered a waste of time and a useless degree according to the govt...and of course nationwide, libraries, museums, cultural venues of all kinds are being closed down.
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They dont need to be hand held. There is absolutely nothing stopping them other than themselves. London still has plenty of museums and libraries. And lets face it they all have phones with internet access, you dont really need more than that!
 
Raz said:
Part of the problem, they know they can all that for free. Another thing is that whether you're in a position to get everything free or not doesnt matter as much if you're surrounded by abusive adults or adults who just prefer the easy life. That also plays a part in how young people develop.

It's not an excuse, I know people who grew up in council estates where muggings and general violence was expected. They came from 'broken homes' but still managed to achieve something in life, staying out of trouble and having successful careers. But in saying it does happen, that influence can be too much for some.

That said, there comes a point when you need to take responsibility regardless of the people around you...
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Nature v nurture.

I grew up on a council estate, i've done ok, but not not everyone was as capable as I was. Do we throw these people to the wolves? Not everyone has the abilty to rise beyond their situation, but it's still neccessay for people to be succesul to some degree, to work, to be able to build a life, to own their own maybe, or have access to affordable housing.

Yes, there's a point where you have to take responsibilty for your own actions, but there's also a responsibilty for govt to provide an envirnment where everyone can thrive if they're willing.
 
Dis86 said:
They dont need to be hand held. There is absolutely nothing stopping them other than themselves. London still has plenty of museums and libraries. And lets face it they all have phones with internet access, you dont really need more than that!
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Don't they? isn't that what eduaction is for? What about the rest of the country?
 
Dis86 said:
They dont need to be hand held. There is absolutely nothing stopping them other than themselves. London still has plenty of museums and libraries. And lets face it they all have phones with internet access, you dont really need more than that!
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That's not really true at all.

The difference between an upbringing where your parents pushed you and provided for you (well), and sent you to a good school, and providing support and encouragement...

The value of all of that cannot be overstated.

It's easy to end up in a downward spiral, too. Get put in the lower sets of a state school, where the teachers don't expect much from you, and you're put in a class with others with similarly low expectations.. when they go home, their parents might not be interested at all.

Take two identical twins, put one in an exceptional school and give them supportive guardians; put the other in a broken (or just disinterested) home... statistically speaking, what do you think happens? (There are exceptions but there are exceptions to every rule).
 
What did they do with apprenticeships for kids in lower sets who weren't suited to academics?

Oh, they destroyed them, and replaced them with the YTS scheme, cheap labour for local firms who took advantage, or passed the cost on for training and education on to firms who wanted to do the right thing...

At the same time of course drastically reduced funding for local tech colleges, who took care of the "academic" aspects of training to be a tradesman, and what do we have now?

No carpenters, lack of brikies, plumbers, engineers etc...

Who could have seen this coming? Oh we all did...
 
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Dis86 said:
They dont need to be hand held. There is absolutely nothing stopping them other than themselves. London still has plenty of museums and libraries. And lets face it they all have phones with internet access, you dont really need more than that!
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We are talking kids that can barley read or write, most don’t know their own postcode or who their dad is.
 
Darujhistan said:
Nature v nurture.

I grew up on a council estate, i've done ok, but not not everyone was as capable as I was. Do we throw these people to the wolves? Not everyone has the abilty to rise beyond their situation, but it's still neccessay for people to be succesul to some degree, to work, to be able to build a life, to own their own maybe, or have access to affordable housing.

Yes, there's a point where you have to take responsibilty for your own actions, but there's also a responsibilty for govt to provide an envirnment where everyone can thrive if they're willing.
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Oh I agree, the government could and should be doing more. It's partly the result of their policies we are where we are.
 
Raz said:
Oh I agree, the government could and should be doing more. It's partly the result of their policies we are where we are.
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This is what happens when you follow a dogma, or an ideology to its logical conclusion. Look at the US, consistenly the World's richest nation since WW2, but a total basket case and we're heading right down the same road.

What I hope people realise is that is that none of this dysfunction happens by chance, its the way things were designed to work.

Not sure what anyone needs to see, to accept that the situation is totally out of control. How much money have EON made in the last six months?

www.energylivenews.com

E.ON makes more than £3bn in profit in first six months - Energy Live News

The global energy group said EBITDA declined by £591 million
www.energylivenews.com www.energylivenews.com
 
smogsy said:
my wife is a teacher, (year 6) & 90% of the kids think they don't need Education, because their all going to become youtubers. She asked them how they will get money to start up & live in a house.
They said borrow from Parents (she asked what if they cannot)
Ill just get a loan (She said what if the bank wont give you a loan they need 3 months of income to work that out)
yeh they will give me a loan. I got make loads of money Youtubing is easy.
she asked again
some came back saying they will steal to get by.

this is not a rough area where she works. lot of Kids come in with 200 pound trainers on.. & some of the end of year teacher gifts were nuts.

THey think They will all be tiktok/youtubers & they dont need to work.
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salted or dry roasted?
 
S.A.S said:
Same here, but honestly over the past 3-5 years i have slowly started seeing inner london move out this way and its really starting to go downhill, we are looking at moving further out now. Shame, i’ve lived here for 30 years and it was a great place to grow up imo.
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This has spoilt many once nice area's of Kent as many inner cities are dumping their unwanted and waiting lists on the county, which from reading news and social media from others counties on the South and East, seems to be a plague for many.
 
FoxEye said:
That's not really true at all.

The difference between an upbringing where your parents pushed you and provided for you (well), and sent you to a good school, and providing support and encouragement...

The value of all of that cannot be overstated.

It's easy to end up in a downward spiral, too. Get put in the lower sets of a state school, where the teachers don't expect much from you, and you're put in a class with others with similarly low expectations.. when they go home, their parents might not be interested at all.

Take two identical twins, put one in an exceptional school and give them supportive guardians; put the other in a broken (or just disinterested) home... statistically speaking, what do you think happens? (There are exceptions but there are exceptions to every rule).
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Albert Einstein says hi. As a perfect example of an exception, there is nothing stopping the exception becoming the norm other than willpower of the individual.
 
Dis86 said:
Albert Einstein says hi. As a perfect example of an exception, there is nothing stopping the exception becoming the norm other than willpower of the individual.
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Tbh what he did say is spot on, it really isn't that much of a hot take, it's pretty much common sense. It's like telling everyone in Somalia if they just work harder and focus more they'll all be millionaires. Sure it's possible but the chances are going to be exceptionally slim.

There is a reason a lot of famous actors their parents have their own wikipedia pages.

Of course it can't always just be used as an excuse for trashy behaviour there also has to be some level of personal responsability but the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Giving people the best opportunities possible to maximize their potential success is the only real antidote we have. Will it always work? no. Some kids will go on to just make bad decisions.
 
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Dis86 said:
Albert Einstein says hi. As a perfect example of an exception, there is nothing stopping the exception becoming the norm other than willpower of the individual.
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Einstein was a genius. Others who came from humble beginnings to become billionaires were first-to-market or similar. E.g. the internet was just getting started at the same time they were.

If your social policies require Einstein-level intellect, or being born at the right time, for people from all backgrounds to achieve their potential... then something is wrong.

If your social policies require that we ignore human factors such as environment, on the development of children, then something is wrong.

You cannot expect human behaviour to change to make your ideology work out. "If people just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and just did what Einstein did... they would have nothing to complain about!" Said every Tory, ever.
 
CREATIVE!11 said:
Tbh what he did say is spot on, it really isn't that much of a hot take, it's pretty much common sense. It's like telling everyone in Somalia if they just work harder and focus more they'll all be millionaires. Sure it's possible but the chances are going to be exceptionally slim.

There is a reason a lot of famous actors their parents have their own wikipedia pages.

Of course it can't always just be used as an excuse for trashy behaviour there also has to be some level of personal responsability but the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Giving people the best opportunities possible to maximize their potential success is the only real antidote we have. Will it always work? no. Some kids will go on to just make bad decisions.
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Again, they have the same access to education and culture as everyone else. The only thing stopping them taking full advantage is themselves.
Hence why people from exceptionally privileged backgrounds can turn in to scum.
We're not talking about everyone becoming millionaires, we're talking about them being functional members of society.
 
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