Making a murderer - The Avery case (Spoilers)
- Thread starter shifty_uk
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Guilty or not, this man drenched a cat in petrol and oil and threw it into a fire alive.
I hope he rots in jail. One thing I detest is animal cruelty.
I hope he rots in jail. One thing I detest is animal cruelty.
Soldato
He was young and he owned up to that. He has an IQ of 70 and was barely functioning at school. I'd understood it as throwing the cat over, not into the fire. Obviously disgusting but a slight difference.
Doesn't detract from the fact that because some corrupt cops hated the family a real rapist was free to carry out an unknown number of crimes (at least one more) in following years.
Although I do admit the show probably does fail to mention lots of things. Must say though 18 years in a prison will probably make anyone a bit sadistic.
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At the expense of women being a raped and murdered? Let's not forget another woman was assaulted because the police didn't do their job in the Penny Beernsten case.
Caporegime
These people don't have an IQ to know how to clean wine off a white dress, I can't see them how to clean that bedroom and garage after stabbing and shooting someone in the head to a level that even beyond Dexter.
When you shoot someone blood splatter goes everywhere, there was just no blood in that garage, that's not the scene of the crime. It's pure crap that the police claims that's where she died. Same as the bedroom, there is no blood in the mattress or the walls or anything, the place, plus the whole place is a mess beyond mess, it's not like it's marble surfaces everywhere, it's junk and wood and carpet and junk.
I don't buy the police theory at all.
And there is everything else, I'm not saying they are innocent but the qualifier is Resaonable Doubt and there has more enough here for reasonable doubt, the documentary may have left out some evidence provided by the state but all you need is reasonable doubt and from what was shown, that line was not only crossed but passed by a mile, which they both should be found not guilty of as a result.
When you shoot someone blood splatter goes everywhere, there was just no blood in that garage, that's not the scene of the crime. It's pure crap that the police claims that's where she died. Same as the bedroom, there is no blood in the mattress or the walls or anything, the place, plus the whole place is a mess beyond mess, it's not like it's marble surfaces everywhere, it's junk and wood and carpet and junk.
I don't buy the police theory at all.
And there is everything else, I'm not saying they are innocent but the qualifier is Resaonable Doubt and there has more enough here for reasonable doubt, the documentary may have left out some evidence provided by the state but all you need is reasonable doubt and from what was shown, that line was not only crossed but passed by a mile, which they both should be found not guilty of as a result.
Very difficult viewing, I watched all 10 episodes yesterday and wanted to smash my TV in anger at the corruption and in-justice that was portrayed.
Of Course the documentary is biased in favor of Steve Avery and Brendan Dassey but there is no escaping the massive failings in the court process and the stench of corruption within the Police department.
I hope and pray that the coercive confession that was video taped not just by the Detectives but by his own defence lawyer's investigator (O,Kelly) Would never ever be permissible in a British Court room.
Did Steve Avery do it? Well it's definitely not clear cut either way but there is enough doubts presented by the defense that should have cleared him and send the Police back to re-think and investigate properly.
Despite the length of the documentary, they do not bring up any information on Steve's two brothers, who have criminal convictions for sexual violence. In my mind there is some serious bad blood in the family between Steve Avery > Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych.
One of the biggest stand out points for me was Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych (Brendan's Step father)
During the trial they both make an alibi for themselves, saying they drove past each other and knew exactly when. This was to get them away from the last sighting of Teresa which was on the Avery estate. They also both just so happen to go hunting and no-one else sees them for many hours after.
The ex boyfriend should have been considered a suspect but is most likely a red herring, I don't think he would have had good detailed knowledge of the quarry. I bring up the Quarry because in my mind this was the primary burn site. I think either Bobby or Scott maybe both of them, drove Teresa's body in her Rav 4 to the Quarry and burned her body. The vehicle was either dumped there or left near by.
This is where the Police corruption starts to come in. Andrew Colborn discovers the vehicle two days before it's found on the Avery property. I would say this is 99% certain when you hear his call with dispatch. The Police now most likely have the vehicle and the burn site but no way of ever proving Steve Avery is responsible. They have already decided he is guilty but are going have to push evidence in the right direction to make it stick.
The vehicle is moved to the Avery property, James Lenk has access to Steve Avery's blood sample and uses a syringe to get some blood that can be used on the vehicle to tie him to the Rav 4.
During the 10 day search of the property, they move some of the bone fragments from the Quarry to small burn pit behind Steve's house and a 2nd location on the property.
They plant the key which remember only has Steve's DNA on it. Not a single trace of Teresa Halbach's DNA is on this key because it was completely scrubbed so clean (Highly suspicious no?)
The search party was specifically pushed in the right direction by the Police to find the Rav 4. Lets not forget that Steve has access to a car crusher but instead of using it to destroy the vehicle/evidence. He puts some branches over the car on the edge of the estate. Makes absolutely no sense.
Also lets not forget that for her body to have been dismembered etc on the property, there would have been blood all over the garage and in his home. They searched and searched but not a single drop of her blood was found anywhere. There is just no physical way he is so good at cleaning up evidence that his dirty trailer and Garage full of junk would not show a single bit of blood evidence.
The FBI test for EDTA in the blood smears turned the tables on Steven but I am really curious. Was a separate sample from the vial itself ever tested using the same method to see if EDTA was present?
I could go on and on to be honest, I pretty much lost faith in any sense of Justice within the USA after seeing the court process.
Of Course the documentary is biased in favor of Steve Avery and Brendan Dassey but there is no escaping the massive failings in the court process and the stench of corruption within the Police department.
I hope and pray that the coercive confession that was video taped not just by the Detectives but by his own defence lawyer's investigator (O,Kelly) Would never ever be permissible in a British Court room.
Did Steve Avery do it? Well it's definitely not clear cut either way but there is enough doubts presented by the defense that should have cleared him and send the Police back to re-think and investigate properly.
Despite the length of the documentary, they do not bring up any information on Steve's two brothers, who have criminal convictions for sexual violence. In my mind there is some serious bad blood in the family between Steve Avery > Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych.
One of the biggest stand out points for me was Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych (Brendan's Step father)
During the trial they both make an alibi for themselves, saying they drove past each other and knew exactly when. This was to get them away from the last sighting of Teresa which was on the Avery estate. They also both just so happen to go hunting and no-one else sees them for many hours after.
The ex boyfriend should have been considered a suspect but is most likely a red herring, I don't think he would have had good detailed knowledge of the quarry. I bring up the Quarry because in my mind this was the primary burn site. I think either Bobby or Scott maybe both of them, drove Teresa's body in her Rav 4 to the Quarry and burned her body. The vehicle was either dumped there or left near by.
This is where the Police corruption starts to come in. Andrew Colborn discovers the vehicle two days before it's found on the Avery property. I would say this is 99% certain when you hear his call with dispatch. The Police now most likely have the vehicle and the burn site but no way of ever proving Steve Avery is responsible. They have already decided he is guilty but are going have to push evidence in the right direction to make it stick.
The vehicle is moved to the Avery property, James Lenk has access to Steve Avery's blood sample and uses a syringe to get some blood that can be used on the vehicle to tie him to the Rav 4.
During the 10 day search of the property, they move some of the bone fragments from the Quarry to small burn pit behind Steve's house and a 2nd location on the property.
They plant the key which remember only has Steve's DNA on it. Not a single trace of Teresa Halbach's DNA is on this key because it was completely scrubbed so clean (Highly suspicious no?)
The search party was specifically pushed in the right direction by the Police to find the Rav 4. Lets not forget that Steve has access to a car crusher but instead of using it to destroy the vehicle/evidence. He puts some branches over the car on the edge of the estate. Makes absolutely no sense.
Also lets not forget that for her body to have been dismembered etc on the property, there would have been blood all over the garage and in his home. They searched and searched but not a single drop of her blood was found anywhere. There is just no physical way he is so good at cleaning up evidence that his dirty trailer and Garage full of junk would not show a single bit of blood evidence.
The FBI test for EDTA in the blood smears turned the tables on Steven but I am really curious. Was a separate sample from the vial itself ever tested using the same method to see if EDTA was present?
I could go on and on to be honest, I pretty much lost faith in any sense of Justice within the USA after seeing the court process.
Caporegime
This whole case is really scary and makes the american justice system look like an absolute joke. How he spent 18 years in jail the first time around is stunning and the second case just beggers belief.
He may be guilty but there is so little evidence for it and so many occurrences of poor police work, lying and underhand behaviour that its hard to believe anything. Stephen Avery isn't that bright but he isn't retarded and there is no way he could have disguised his crime so badly in some aspects and so perfectly in others.
Not a scrap of blood anywhere after this violent crime is committed in what can only be described as a complete tip of a garage. There is no way he could have cleaned that to the point of leaving no evidence. There was no mention of any sort of bleach residue being found in there.
The only evidence they did find was suspect as hell. Either they are literally blind to miss these things the first 5 or more times they search a place or it simply wasn't there at the time.
The people the prosecution brought in to support them and give evidence also seemed suspect at best. The fact there were a few bone fragments at another site apparently suggested to the prosecution expert that the burn pit was the primary site when that doesn't make any sense.
The whole thing just stunk to high heaven. He may be guilty but what happened to the burden of proof being on the prosecution. They were torn to pieces time after time on huge pieces of the evidence and crime.
The Brenden case just makes your blood boil as well. The kid is clearly pretty much retarded and the police lead him into a confession. The way he genuinely thought that if he told them exactly what they wanted to hear that he would be released in a few days. He tried so hard to tell them what they wanted to hear and then when they couldn't lead him to talk about shooting the woman they just flat out say it and suddenly he "remembers".
The fact they are allowed to talk to that boy alone and essentially bully him is beyond the pale. When he writes about what happened on the day of her disappearance and doesn't mention her and the person with him again bullies him to change it to fit their narrative.
He writes the same summary of the days events without her murder in it again later when he finally get a decent lawyer and for a guy who is thick as **** the details of both accounts are almost identical. The only time he is vague and changes his story is when they are getting him to talk about how him and his uncle killed the girl.
The guy defending him initially seems to be an utter **** as well. A smug twot of the highest order who had absolutely no interest in actually helping him. He should be behind bars for what he was trying to do to the lad.
You could tell what the verdict would be after a few episodes simply because there is no way that all of the things that happened surrounding the case would be allowed if the whole system wasn't as corrupt and bent as a nine bob note.
He may be guilty but there is so little evidence for it and so many occurrences of poor police work, lying and underhand behaviour that its hard to believe anything. Stephen Avery isn't that bright but he isn't retarded and there is no way he could have disguised his crime so badly in some aspects and so perfectly in others.
Not a scrap of blood anywhere after this violent crime is committed in what can only be described as a complete tip of a garage. There is no way he could have cleaned that to the point of leaving no evidence. There was no mention of any sort of bleach residue being found in there.
The only evidence they did find was suspect as hell. Either they are literally blind to miss these things the first 5 or more times they search a place or it simply wasn't there at the time.
The people the prosecution brought in to support them and give evidence also seemed suspect at best. The fact there were a few bone fragments at another site apparently suggested to the prosecution expert that the burn pit was the primary site when that doesn't make any sense.
The whole thing just stunk to high heaven. He may be guilty but what happened to the burden of proof being on the prosecution. They were torn to pieces time after time on huge pieces of the evidence and crime.
The Brenden case just makes your blood boil as well. The kid is clearly pretty much retarded and the police lead him into a confession. The way he genuinely thought that if he told them exactly what they wanted to hear that he would be released in a few days. He tried so hard to tell them what they wanted to hear and then when they couldn't lead him to talk about shooting the woman they just flat out say it and suddenly he "remembers".
The fact they are allowed to talk to that boy alone and essentially bully him is beyond the pale. When he writes about what happened on the day of her disappearance and doesn't mention her and the person with him again bullies him to change it to fit their narrative.
He writes the same summary of the days events without her murder in it again later when he finally get a decent lawyer and for a guy who is thick as **** the details of both accounts are almost identical. The only time he is vague and changes his story is when they are getting him to talk about how him and his uncle killed the girl.
The guy defending him initially seems to be an utter **** as well. A smug twot of the highest order who had absolutely no interest in actually helping him. He should be behind bars for what he was trying to do to the lad.
You could tell what the verdict would be after a few episodes simply because there is no way that all of the things that happened surrounding the case would be allowed if the whole system wasn't as corrupt and bent as a nine bob note.
Haven't got round to watching this yet however, does SA admit to phoning autotrader and admit to meeting the victim that day?
If he did meet her how could he not have seen or heard others(his brothers etc) speaking to, abducting or murdering her, did he claim to see her leave the property in her jeep?
If he did meet her how could he not have seen or heard others(his brothers etc) speaking to, abducting or murdering her, did he claim to see her leave the property in her jeep?
Said he met with her, she took the photos of the little Van he wanted to sell and then she handed him an auto trader magazine before leaving.
Also worth noting, the driver of the school bus dropped of the Dassey Kids at about 3:30 - 3:40 and saw a woman taking photos of a Van.
Caporegime
Yeah, Avery never claimed that he didn't meet her. I have read some other stuff around this case that wasn't in the documentary but none of it is particularly compelling and based on what we did see I'm not willing to believe any of it without knowing a lot more about it as much of it doesn't make sense.
The prosecutions case was weak throughout and half of it seemed to be based on asking people who were essentially being accused of either being horrendously bad at their job or straight up corrupt to say that they didn't plant evidence. I got the impression that the prosecution were really not very good at their job but then why would you need to be when a case like this gets you a conviction. The defence were much stronger.
The prosecutions case was weak throughout and half of it seemed to be based on asking people who were essentially being accused of either being horrendously bad at their job or straight up corrupt to say that they didn't plant evidence. I got the impression that the prosecution were really not very good at their job but then why would you need to be when a case like this gets you a conviction. The defence were much stronger.
Caporegime
If he did learn from them then he manager to commit a crime which was 80% Dexteresque and 20% mickey mouse. Its like sterilising a operating theatre meticulously then letting a dog run around in there before you operate. You simply wouldn't hide a crime so well and then leave such ridiculous pieces of evidence as he apparently did.
Evidence which wasn't discovered after many searches yet was seemingly in plain sight. So much of it is just astounding.
The bus driver was one of the few reliable witnesses. Her school run will be at the same time every single day and she goes the exact same route. So her time frame would have been nearly bang on the money.
The fact that she saw the photos being taken completely destroys this rubbish about Brendan hearing screams coming from his Uncles trailer. Brendan didn't even notice Teresa, he simply went home and started playing on the playstation with his cousin.
The fact that she saw the photos being taken completely destroys this rubbish about Brendan hearing screams coming from his Uncles trailer. Brendan didn't even notice Teresa, he simply went home and started playing on the playstation with his cousin.
Caporegime
Not sure how a copy of Autotrader and a receipt counts as evidence that Theresa was inside the trailer.
I have a copy of Autotrader at work too and anyone who has ever taken out an ad has a receipt...which Avery has done on numerous occasions.
I have a copy of Autotrader at work too and anyone who has ever taken out an ad has a receipt...which Avery has done on numerous occasions.
Soldato
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Someone lock this man up before it's too late!