Making a murderer - The Avery case (Spoilers)

[csrogue]

I believe the majority of the jury were not guilty and were forced over by other stubborn members to switch to guilty.

My opinion is there wasnt enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Mostly because of the inept investigation and prosecution techniques. I've read a lot of the side reporting that the program didnt cover. Still dont think they had enough for beyond reasonable doubt.

Is he guilty....Maybe and thats the problem shouldn't be jailed for maybe even if hes a monster as some paint him.

If he's commited as many crimes as they claim they must be pretty damned inept to not have jailed him for any of them.

 

[[TFU] Thegoon84]

Said he met with her, she took the photos of the little Van he wanted to sell and then she handed him an auto trader magazine before leaving.

Also worth noting, the driver of the school bus dropped of the Dassey Kids at about 3:30 - 3:40 and saw a woman taking photos of a Van.

Didn't brendan's brother say he saw the car still parked at Steven's house at 3.40 before he went hunting but no woman around the car?

 

[daz]

One of the best mockumentaries out there, I didn't realise it was fake until I saw the multicamera work with the actors pretending to be TV crew.

Fake edit: WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT WAS REAL?!

I too was getting ready for a big reveal at the end...

 

[EddScott]

One of the best mockumentaries out there, I didn't realise it was fake until I saw the multicamera work with the actors pretending to be TV crew.

Fake edit: WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT WAS REAL?!

No, in all seriousness, I actually dig the fact this documentary was biased, because unlike jury, judge and entire US watching TV at the time it allowed us to distance ourselves from the fact that Steven Avery was a violent, unlikeable, inbred hick with seriously dodgy past and company. We didn't get to see how all the circumstances put together undeniably mixed him into this crime, in whatever capacity, and how his life was the world where bad things were done to good people by nasty element.

Instead, because what we saw was heavily biased and filtered, we got to see what the judge and jurors didn't believe or pay attention to - the corruption, the overeagerness, the entrapment, the world where despicable things are done to terrible people by those rotten to the core, in the name of good. We got to see the world that's only charcoal grey, with no black or white or lines between the two.

And that made for absolutely fascinating viewing. It's like Fargo from nightmares. Better than any fictional crime story in the last decade.

Excellent post. Sums it up quite well.

I have doubts as to whether he did kill her. However, if I choose to believe he didn't then am I expecting myself to believe that say, one of the cops killed her purely to frame Avery? It's one thing to gloss over a few things to put someone in jail who probably should be there anyway. It's another to kidnap, shoot and burn a woman all supposedly to avoid the county coughing up a wad of cash?

 

[robfosters]

I don't think the police killed her. That would be ridiculous. I do however, think another one of the other Avery men did it and pinned it on Steven. The Police then augmented the evidence. I think there were two fellas who despite not being suspected, still tried to prove an alibi for each other. However, I'm not too upset that Avery is locked up. His past proves IMO that he is a dangerous man. Society may not be a better place for what happened to him, but it may be a safer place. I think the police had that in mind as well as the payout.

As for Brendan, that is just tragic. Totally and utterly deplorable from all the authorities involved. He is not bright. He relies on a system that should be able to look after him and not force him to incriminate himself. All the poor boy did was go home and play on his PlayStation ffs. I think and really hope that Brendan will be free in the not too distant future.

Overall the documentary was amazing. I think if there are documentary awards as such, this should be up for one. Utterly gripping from start to finish. The dedication the filmmakers had in following the case for such a long time before being able to think about releasing it is awesome. Utterly brilliant. You know somethings good when you start watching at 10pm and end up going to sleep at 4am.

 

[PermaChanged]

I do however, think another one of the other Avery men did

Society may not be a better place for what happened to him, but it may be a safer place.

With actual murderers free to roam!?

 

[robfosters]

With actual murderers free to roam!?

No of course not. But the police never had any intention of hunting down the real killer, just as they didn't have any intention of hunting down the real rapist in his previous conviction.

 

[timmeh]

 

[[TFU] Thegoon84]

From what i have read it seems he is guilty as hell but case should be thrown out because the police did not handle his case correctly due to corruption.

I have been reading a little on the case and found this article to be interesting.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/06/making-a-murderer-subject-steven-avery-is-guilty-as-hell/


A few others which talk about the missing info from the TV show
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/things-steven-avery-making-murderer/story?id=36090236


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/evidence-s-missing-making-murderer-article-1.2485213




I also found this video quite good at explaining the bias of the TV show

This is another good link which explains most of the case
http://truecrimecases.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/steven-avery.html
His brothers chuck and Earl also seem to violent against women also


Sounds like the whole family are scum, have no sympathy for any of them.
I guess that's why the police decided to do what they did because they knew it was the morally right thing to do to get him behind bars even if its not the legal thing to do.

Just doing about an hour of reading online has shown quite a few holes in averys side of the story and the TV shows one sided approach, its kinda worrying that people can watch a show about a criminal and because of the the emotional nature of it just suspend logic and reason and go straight too lets release him back on the streets regardless of what a violent loon he is.
Although it does seem like the way things are starting to operate these days, nobody thinks things through just reacts based on emotion.

That guys video is quite rubbish tbh... he's whole reason for finding him guilty is because the family were scum and he dipped a cat in fuel and threw it on the bonfire.... While absolute scum, proves absolutely nothing about guilt.... what a waste of 16mins watching that!

 

[holymonk]

Typical stupid Americans that is all.

 

[Django x2]

That guys video is quite rubbish tbh... he's whole reason for finding him guilty is because the family were scum and he dipped a cat in fuel and threw it on the bonfire.... While absolute scum, proves absolutely nothing about guilt.... what a waste of 16mins watching that!

You watched all 16 mins? And yet you came to the conclusion that Crowder was suggesting he was guilty? We watched different videos. That wasn't the context of that film at all

 

[cadmunkey]

Snippet from Wikipedia:
"On January 11, 2016, Avery filed for a new appeal citing violations of due process rights.[4] The following day, attorney Kathleen Zellner announced that her Chicago-area firm would be representing Avery. She will be assisted by Tricia Bushnell, legal director of the Midwest Innocence Project."
They claim to have new evidence that will exonerate Avery.

 

[Danthus]

Can anyone answer this question for me?

The key to the Rav 4 was not found the first time the house was searched.

Avery was not allowed into the house for a period of 8 days.

Was the key found during this 8 day period?

 

[v0n]

Can anyone answer this question for me?

The key to the Rav 4 was not found the first time the house was searched.

Avery was not allowed into the house for a period of 8 days.

Was the key found during this 8 day period?

It's dodgy and weird but not quite as weird as the documentary make it, volunteer Pam Sturm (who previously worked as private investigator) finds Rav4 in auto yard after "being guided by God" on Nov 5, 10:30am, some time after 3pm investigators apply for search warrant for Avery property. Warrant is obtained on the same day. On Nov 8 in the morning the key is found on second or third (depending on version) search after the crew allegedly move furniture around.

The key found is one, single spare key. It's not the key actively used day to day on the key chain by the victim...

 

[Delvis]

Bump

Rewatched this recently,still nuts it's going on considering the circumstances based on the TV program.

Having watched it again, based on what is shown in the TV program, the jury should not have given a guilty verdict, there simply was not enough evidence to have ''no doubt" that he was guilty.

Brendan on the other hand has basically had the clear to be released, but Manitowoc County has appealed this and verdict is still waiting for that!

Argh

 

[Irish_Tom]

When I watched it I couldn’t believe how badly stitched up they both appeared to be.

I then read up on the case online and it seems the TV show was heavily biased in Avery’s favour; leaving out key evidence and testimony.

Ultimately I was left unsure, which I suppose means I would have to vote “not guilty”.

Brendan’s case on the other hand, is a clear miscarriage of justice.

 

[Delvis]

When I watched it I couldn’t believe how badly stitched up they both appeared to be.

I then read up on the case online and it seems the TV show was heavily biased in Avery’s favour; leaving out key evidence and testimony.

Ultimately I was left unsure, which I suppose means I would have to vote “not guilty”.

Brendan’s case on the other hand, is a clear miscarriage of justice.

True.

As you've suggested the evidence against him still wasn't 100% against him if you use your head and don't just go herp derp I'm American, so he shouldn't have been found guilty.

Brendan, he clearly had mental issues understanding everything so should have been given the opportunity to get that sorted.

 

[glenimp617]

Brendan’s case on the other hand, is a clear miscarriage of justice.

If there was a miscarriage of justice here, then there could well have been with Avery. It's obvious they were trying to stitch him up, so I would assume the same happened before.

It's been years since I first watched it, but I remember thinking that if he didn't kill her then who did? Did they cover that in the show?

 

[Delvis]

If there was a miscarriage of justice here, then there could well have been with Avery. It's obvious they were trying to stitch him up, so I would assume the same happened before.

It's been years since I first watched it, but I remember thinking that if he didn't kill her then who did? Did they cover that in the show?

No, not really. There was literally no other case, it was simply straight to Steven purely on the basis of Brendan's confession (which was clearly made up) and the blood found in the car, which was tested for EDTA but it wasn't detected but doesn't mean that it wasn't present (due to to high of a threshold to flag positive for instance)

The most the previous defense lawyers thought could help him now was a new test to detect EDTA in the blood samples but I think that's proved difficult at the time.

 

[Smokey Deza]

Zero interest in this. The guy douses a cat in petrol and then lobs it on a bonfire, correct? Why should I care if he's innocent or guilty for murder?