Man sends banana to black mans table in Wetherspoons pub

[SexyGreyFox]

But we're all descendants from apes, no matter the creed or colour.

Now I know you're trolling.
Darwin never said we came from apes.

 

[chef-borjan]

But we're all descendants from apes, no matter the creed or colour.

Do you think this is a smart retort? I am more cheesed off by the stupidity of this comment rather than the attempt to trivialise racism. Engage your brain, and stop trying to find excuses for this behaviour.

I realise that may be difficult, you probably have a significant proportion of your identity tied to these views (oh the mainstream has all got it wrong, everyone is a wuss... but I HAVE FIGURED IT ALL OUT), and if you start to critical reflect them then it all come crumbling down. But still, I actually think the words you are putting out in this forum are harmful and don't see a reason to sit by and let them not be challenged. There will be impressionable minds out there reading this, and going 'oh yeah... well he has a point because we are all apes' etc etc. To those reading this, MrMarvelous doesn't have a point at all.

Yes, we are all descended from creatures that would have been ape-like once a upon a time.

But here is the major problem with calling black people apes. White civilisations have historically enslaved and oppressed darker skinned people. Also importantly, this happened within a relatively recent time and within living memory. Th effects are directly being felt today with regards to the inequalities. So, black people (and other ethnic minorities but we will stay on topic here) were treated as a sub-class of people. Slavery and many other forms injustice and oppression.

One component of this is that it is entirely possible to treat other human beings this way if you don't believe that they are people at all, but instead are animals. Wild savages that don't know or deserve any better. "Oh they came from the Africa you say? Isn't that they place where apes and monkeys come from? Well, look at black people's larger lips, their darker skin." So the connection was quickly made that black people were closer to apes, given some twisted excuse to explain/justify/legitimise terrible actions.

Give a banana as a 'joke' to Dan Smith from West Yorkshire and he is not going to suddenly feel like he is in an incredibly hostile room, where the people think of him as sub-human. I doubt he will start thinking back to stories his grandfather told him about how guys his age would get dragged behind an alley way to be beaten because he looked at a white woman and it was normal. He is not going to worry that this attitude is bubbling under the surface everywhere, that maybe his boss thinks this kind of joke makes sense and is going to fire him for some ******** that would never happen to his other colleagues. Bananas or making monkey chants are symbols that say 'hey Mr. Black man, I am better than you and will treat you accordingly.'

MrMarvelous, that you can't see this link is illuminating in terms of your critical thinking skills.

But the main point is this. This 'joke' has no place in the modern world. Full stop. Symbols are not just symbols. Little drips and drops of this kind of mindset lead to a normalisation of appalling behaviour that affects every fabric of our society. "Oh black people obviously aren't actually apes,.. but they are very loud, rude and uncivilised. In fact, I think that black boy at work is probably the one who has been stealing the computer equipment. You know, they all do it' etc etc.

Do better. Treat people with dignity and respect. There are problems and pains that we all go through, and it's about listening to each other and trying to help out. Not dismissing serious racial discrimination as 'a bit of whining'.

Edited to clear up some typos.

 

[Dis86]

Bless, lovely long post but fundamentally based on inaccurate statements.

 

[Smokey Deza]

So your anger isn't with the person who did the stupid act, but the person who was the target? The target was the selfish person?

....OK. I mean I suppose someone went out of their way to buy them some fruit for one of their 5 a day. They should be grateful.

Just in the sense that he complained and as a result, finite police resources were diverted to investigate who sent him a banana. Maybe just eat it and carry on with one's life.

 

[ltron]

Do you think this is a smart retort? I am more cheesed off by the stupidity of this comment rather than the attempt to trivialise racism. Engage your brain, and stop trying to find excuses for this behaviour.

I realise that may be difficult, you probably have a significant proportion of your identity tied to these views (oh the mainstream has all got it wrong, everyone is a wuss... but I HAVE FIGURED IT ALL OUT), and if you start to critical reflect them then it all come crumbling down. But still, I actually think the words you are putting out in this forum are harmful and don't see a reason to sit by and let them not be challenged. There will be impressionable minds out there reading this, and going 'oh yeah... well he has a point because we are all apes' etc etc. To those reading this, MrMarvelous doesn't have a point at all.

Yes, we are all descended from creatures that would have been ape-like once a upon a time.

But here is the major problem with calling black people apes. White civilisations have historically enslaved and oppressed darker skinned people. Also importantly, this happened at a relatively recent time, and within living memory. Definitely the effects are directly being felt to this say about the inequalities. So, black people (and other ethnic minorities but we will stay on topic here) were treat them as a sub-class of people. Slavery and many other forms injustice and oppression. One component of this is that it is entirely possible to treat other human beings this way if you don't believe that they are people at all, but instead are animals. Wild savages that don't know or deserve any better. Oh they came from the Africa you say? Isn't that they place where apes and monkeys come from? Well, look at black people's larger lips, their darker skin. So the connection was quickly made that black people were closer to apes, given some twisted excuse to explain/justify/legitimise terrible actions.

Given a banana as a 'joke' to Dan Smith from West Yorkshire and he is not going to suddenly feel like he is in an incredibly hostile room, where the people think of him as sub-human. I doubt he will start thinking back to stories his grandfather told him about how guy's his age would get dragged behind an alley way to be beaten because he looked at a white woman and it was normal. He is not going to worry that this attitude is bubbling under the surface everywhere, that maybe his boss thinks this kind of joke makes sense and is going to fire him for some ******** that would never happen to his other colleagues. Banana's or making monkey chants are symbol that says 'hey Mr. Black man, I am better than you and will treat you accordingly.'

MrMarvelous, that you can't see this link is illuminating in terms of your critical thinking skills.

But the main point is this. This 'joke' has no place in the modern world. Full stop. Symbols are not just symbols. Little drips and drops of this kind of mindset lead to a normalisation of appalling behaviour that affects every fabric of our society. 'Oh black people obviously aren't actually apes.. but they are very loud, rude and uncivilised. In fact, I think that black boy at work is probably the one who has been stealing the computer equipment. You know, they all do it' etc etc.

Do better. Treat people with dignity and respect. There are problems and pains that we all go through, and it's about listening to each other and trying to help out. Not dismissing serious racial discrimination as 'a bit of whining'.

Great post, an idiot got his comeuppance for being racist in what one hopes is still a civilised society. Anyone who claims otherwise is deluding themselves.

 

[ltron]

Just in the sense that he complained and as a result, finite police resources were diverted to investigate who sent him a banana. Maybe just eat it and carry on with one's life.

Maybe the idiot who was the true waster of police resources shouldn't have been so overtly racist and made the victim feel afraid for their safety. Letting these things go unpunished is a slippery slope.

 

[Dis86]

Great post, an idiot got his comeuppance for being racist in what one hopes is still a civilised society. Anyone who claims otherwise is deluding themselves.

Except it's factually wrong...

 

[Dis86]

Maybe the idiot who was the true waster of police resources shouldn't have been so overtly racist and made the victim feel afraid for their safety. Letting these things go unpunished is a slippery slope.

He wasn't overly racist. That would have been walking up to the guy and saying something to his face. He was covertly racist. The direct opposite. Hence why there was a 'painstaking' police investigation .

 

[chef-borjan]

Bless, lovely long post but fundamentally based on inaccurate statements.

Copy. Paste.

I realise that may be difficult, you probably have a significant proportion of your identity tied to these views (oh the mainstream has all got it wrong, everyone is a wuss... but I HAVE FIGURED IT ALL OUT), and if you start to critical reflect them then it all come crumbling down. But still, I actually think the words you are putting out in this forum are harmful and don't see a reason to sit by and let them not be challenged.

Go on then. You are very smart and know things I do not. Please enlighten me where I have got this wrong.

 

[Rofflay]

You guys are giving too little credit to their intelligence, it isn't willful ignorance it is an excuse for superiority.


I'm pretty sure you could use this thread to quite accurately determine which users do not have friends outside of their own race.

Maybe because different races are different because they evolved in thier own unique area? And until globalism and migration they would naturally not see anyone of a different race unless they ventured down from Scotland to the tip of Spain?


Its completely natural not to have friends outside your own race, Its actually prebuilt into humans via evolution just like tribalism its a male self defence mechanism. So why do people feel like they need to force it so oh you need to have black friends or you are a racist. This has hints of totalarian thought control in the same way Boyega is crying that Chinese people do not think he looks pretty or brands do not want to lose trade because the Chinese do not accept African beauty.


Just chill with the thought control, If people do not have friends from other races why does it matter unless you have an agenda?

 

[Dis86]

Copy. Paste.

I realise that may be difficult, you probably have a significant proportion of your identity tied to these views (oh the mainstream has all got it wrong, everyone is a wuss... but I HAVE FIGURED IT ALL OUT), and if you start to critical reflect them then it all come crumbling down. But still, I actually think the words you are putting out in this forum are harmful and don't see a reason to sit by and let them not be challenged.

Go on then. You are very smart and know things I do not. Please enlighten me where I have got this wrong.

You neglected the fact that slavery has been prevalent throughout human history and enacted against all races. I notice you never mentioned that 3 African cities alone were responsible for the enslavement of over a million white Europeans from 1500 to 1810...

Additionally, since you were harping on about black African slavery you claimed it was within living memory. It's not. At all. It was abolished completely in the UK in 1833. There are no known people alive who even knew someone who was a slave, let alone someone living who was a slave.

Finally it was not racial discrimination. I suggest you look up the meaning of that term.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Its actually prebuilt into humans via evolution just like tribalism its a male self defence mechanism

That is absolute ********. Racism is not a natural evolutional trait. Its just plain old racism.

Its completely natural not to have friends outside your own race

It is also completely natural to actually have friends outside your own race. If you choose not to have friends outside your own race, that is racism.

 

[The Running Man]

That is absolute ********. Racism is not a natural evolutional trait. Its just plain old racism.It is also completely natural to actually have friends outside your own race. If you choose not to have friends outside your own race, that is racism.

Turns out it is though

 

[Tony Edwards]

You guys are gloating again.

That is absolute ********. Racism is not a natural evolutional trait.

Turns out it is though

Or

Racism has been—and unfortunately still is—such a prominent feature of so many human societies that it might be tempting to think of it as somehow "natural" or "innate."

Indeed, this is the conclusion that some evolutionary psychologists have come to. Evolutionary psychology tries to account for present-day human traits in terms of the survival benefit they might have had to our ancestors. If a trait has survived and become prevalent, then the genes associated with it must have been "selected" by evolution.

According to this logic, racism is prevalent because it was beneficial for early human beings to deprive other groups of resources. It would have done our ancestors no good to be altruistic and allow other groups to share their resources; that would have just decreased their own chances of survival. But if they could subjugate and oppress other groups, this would increase their own access to resources. In these terms, according to Pascal Boyer, racism is "a consequence of highly efficient economic strategies," enabling us to "keep members of other groups in a lower-status position, with distinctly worse benefits." (1) Another related idea is that to see one’s own group as special or superior would have helped us to survive by enhancing group cohesion.

However, like so many of the "just so" stories put forward in the name of evolutionary psychology, these ideas are extremely dubious. First of all, anthropologists who have studied contemporary hunter-gatherer tribes (who follow the same lifestyle as prehistoric human beings and can therefore be seen as representative of our species’ ancient past) report that they do not generally behave with this kind of hostility towards other groups. They don’t tend to see other tribes in their vicinity as competitors for the same food sources and try to subjugate them or restrict their access to resources. Contemporary hunter-gatherer groups are fairly fluid, with changing membership. Different groups interact with each other a lot, regularly visiting each other, making marriage alliances, and sometimes switching members. This is not the kind of behavior that we would associate with racism. (2)

Significantly, hunter-gatherer groups don’t tend to be territorial. They don’t have a possessive attitude toward particular pieces of land or food resources. As the anthropologists Burch and Ellanna put it, "both social and spatial boundaries among hunter-gatherers are extremely flexible with regard to membership and geographic extent." (3)

There is archaeological evidence for this lack of concern for territory too. Anthropologist Jonathan Haas writes of prehistoric North America, for instance: "The archaeological record gives no evidence of territorial behavior on the part of any of these first hunters and gatherers. Rather, they seem to have developed a very open network of communication and interaction that spread across the continent." (4) Again, this is not the kind of behavior which would fit with an "innate" racism.

Racism as a Psychological Defense Mechanism

An alternative view is that racism (and xenophobia of all kinds) does not have a genetic or evolutionary basis, but is primarily a psychological trait — more specifically, a psychological defense mechanism generated by feelings of insecurity and anxiety. There is some evidence for this view from the psychological theory of "terror management." Research has shown that when people are given reminders of their own mortality, they feel a sense of anxiety and insecurity, which they respond to by becoming more prone to status-seeking, materialism, greed, prejudice, and aggression. They are more likely to conform to culturally accepted attitudes and to identify with their national or ethnic groups.

According to Terror Management Theory, the motivation of these behaviors is to enhance one’s sense of significance or value in the face of death, or to gain a sense of security or belonging, as a way of protecting oneself against the threat of mortality. In my view, racism is a similar response to a more general sense of insignificance, unease, or inadequacy.

It is possible to identify five different aspects of racism as psychological defense mechanisms. These could also be seen as different stages, moving towards more extreme versions of racism. Firstly, if a person feels insecure or lacking in identity, they may have a desire to affiliate themselves with a group in order to strengthen their sense of identity and find a sense of belonging. Being part of something bigger than themselves and sharing a common cause with the other members of their group makes them feel more complete and significant.

The third aspect is when members of a group take the step of withdrawing empathy from members of other groups, limiting their concern and compassion to their fellows. They may act benevolently towards members of their own group, but be cruel and heartless to anyone outside it. (This helps explain why some of the most brutal individuals in history, such as Adolf Hitler, sometimes reportedly acted kindly to the people around them.)

I mean come on if someone actually thinks being racist is a natural evolutionary trait then they must be racist and happy with it no?

I just dont get how someone can say stuff like that.

 

[The Running Man]

You guys are gloating again.


Or
I mean come on if someone actually thinks being racist is a natural evolutionary trait then they must be racist and happy with it no?

I just dont get how someone can say stuff like that.

According to Terror Management Theory, the motivation of these behaviors is to enhance one’s sense of significance or value in the face of death, or to gain a sense of security or belonging, as a way of protecting oneself against the threat of mortality. In my view, racism is a similar response to a more general sense of insignificance, unease, or inadequacy.

It is possible to identify five different aspects of racism as psychological defense mechanisms. These could also be seen as different stages, moving towards more extreme versions of racism. Firstly, if a person feels insecure or lacking in identity, they may have a desire to affiliate themselves with a group in order to strengthen their sense of identity and find a sense of belonging. Being part of something bigger than themselves and sharing a common cause with the other members of their group makes them feel more complete and significant.

Well either way if terror defence mechanisms exist and you purport they do...it's astonishing that they just appeared without any evolutionary pressure (is that even possible that triats just randomly appear in people without evolution?)

Everything you posted just proves the point that humans probably are inherently racist on that basis. Whether that black people against Chinese or white against black or vice versa.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Well either way if terror defence mechanisms exist and you purport they do...it's astonishing that they just appeared without any evolutionary pressure (is that even possible that triats just randomly appear in people without evolution?)

Everything you posted just proves the point that humans probably are inherently racist on that basis. Whether that black people against Chinese or white against black or vice versa.

No it just proves that a lot of people are dicks. Racism is like violence. Some people have uncontrollable rage and some dont.

 

[The Running Man]

No it just proves that a lot of people are dicks. Racism is like violence. Some people have uncontrollable rage and some dont.

Not really that's not what it shows.

Lots of people have uncontrollable rage and violence yes, check the prison population to see that.

 

[NVP]

Wow, such a defensive post. Doesn't take a genius to work out why.

Maybe because different races are different because they evolved in thier own unique area?

Firstly, I have no idea what this relates to as it doesn't quite follow the post of mine that you quoted.

Its completely natural not to have friends outside your own race, Its actually prebuilt into humans via evolution just like tribalism its a male self defence mechanism.

Perhaps, for the un-evolved. Why don't you try joining your fellow man in the modern world and at least try not to be so animal-like in behaviour?

So why do people feel like they need to force it so oh you need to have black friends or you are a racist.

No-one is forcing anything, where do you feel this has happened to you? My post did not suggest racism, only ignorance.

Just chill with the thought control, If people do not have friends from other races why does it matter unless you have an agenda?

Thought control? Please, enlighten me as to where I'm attempting to control your thoughts.

Considering my post was simply...

I'm pretty sure you could use this thread to quite accurately determine which users do not have friends outside of their own race

...you're coming across quite unhinged.

 

[Diddums]

Can we give @NVP a new title? Something like "Ultimate GIF master" or something? Dude's always on point with his GIFs. Always.



Anyway. What the dude did was racist, it was wrong, just like it would've been wrong to do it to anyone else. He was right to be arrested for it, I think a warning and that's the end of it, but that black fella needed some closure on the matter. People don't realise how these things affect you, and yes, I'm talking from experience. Once or twice? Sure, whatevs. But this chap might have been on the receiving end of loads of this behaviour at work, from friends, in school, whatever. There's only so much people will take before snapping, and again, I talk from experience. I spent a night in a cell because I was an African in a tiny little town in Holland which could probably count on one hand the amount of Africans it had in it. I was literally Token, except I was white. I still got it. Every day, day in, day out. Abuse, bananas, monkeys, I heard it all. Until one day I lost it and one of those guys has a scar on his face to this day to prove it. It could've been worse, but it could've also been prevented entirely, which is the point after all. It's unnecessary, stupid, ignorant and will only lead to resentment and hatred, or in many cases worse.

 

[NVP]

If you choose not to have friends outside your own race, that is racism.

Tony... what is racism to you?