Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

[Mynight]

Nonsense. If places had these systems in place, they wouldn't be targeted in the first place since they would know they wouldn't be able to get inside.

Nothing stops them trying outside, but the damage they would do would be smaller compared to inside.

Think how many people would be waiting to get through such security it would just move the place of attack no?

 

[awaybreaktoday]

Nonsense. If places had these systems in place, they wouldn't be targeted in the first place since they would know they wouldn't be able to get inside.

Nothing stops them trying outside, but the damage they would do would be smaller compared to inside.

With all the security outside downing street it did not stop the IRA mortar attack on 10 Downing Street (7th February 1991)...

 

[IronWarrior]

Think how many people would be waiting to get through such security it would just move the place of attack no?

Which can be reduced by multiple entrances and entry times to stagger people out further reducing the risk.

With all the security outside downing street it did not stop the IRA mortar attack on 10 Downing Street (7th February 1991)...

That's a mortar attack, not a suicide vest worn by an islamic terrorist.

 

[Mynight]

Which can be reduced by multiple entrances and entry times to stagger people out further reducing the risk.

We've gone from preventing the attacks to reducing the attack damage.

You can't prevent an attack from what you've suggested which was the original point contested. You can reduce the potential victims of a single instance yes.

 

[fs123]

Most of these attackers always seem to be newly converted or young adults who probably don't even know the basics yet somehow think they are the leaders of their religion. Whoever is giving them orders must be really good at brainwashing people. The security forces need to target the recruiters as well as just keep an eye on the potential attackers. Surely if this 22 year old was known to police, they must have known who is teaching him.

 

[Kyrne]

Ironwarrior your living in the clouds.... staggered times would not work.

Big gigs like that have people camping outside from 6am even though they don't start until 7pm.

As said it would just move the point of attack to the crowded scab points.

Sadly there is no way to defend against these types of attacks (trucks / car's driving down pavements etc) best way is Intel I guess and stopping them before the act. Which i guess is hard since its all about brain washing people to do it.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

That's a mortar attack, not a suicide vest worn by an islamic terrorist.

Just pointing out there always a way to attack a target regardless of security......

 

[ghutchison14078]

Such a pointless tragedy; as a parent myself I can't begin to imagine the pain the parents of the innocent children murdered are going through right now.

Yet another lunatic that has put fear and hate into our hearts and heads.

 

[Amp34]

Apply this level of thinking to most other things, it's lunacy. It's like a wheel (Islam) that keeps dropping off of a car and instead blaming everything else apart from the wheel and doing nothing to rectify the problem (if this is even possible). Everyone knows it's now just another case of sit back and wait for it to happen again, rinse and repeat. Add a little Facebook flag too for good measure by now there should just be flags permanently for most of Europe, also what about all the middle eastern countries that have worse attacks due to Islam. All religion is deluded rubbish and if you cant see it then well......Some of the teachings are fair enough but isn't that what philosophy is for.

Heaven forbid it may actually be one of the nuts that's the problem, not the wheel.

What's your solution to this issue then?

Ban religion? That'll work. I think they tried that in the 1600 with Catholicism. Did it work?

It took 50 years to "solve" the IRA problem, probably a similar timeframe for ETA and even then it a bit of a fragile peace. Unfortunately things like this take time and effort, until then we have to realise that sometimes bad things happen.

 

[NiCkNaMe]

Which can be reduced by multiple entrances and entry times to stagger people out further reducing the risk.

There will always be choke points even if they aren't at the venue for an event other places e.g. Route to venue, local transport, stations etc. Need to deal with root cause as opposed to increasing overt security (which ultimately reduces our freedoms anyway)

 

[mid_gen]

despite what you believe most of the violence in the middle east in the past 50 years is down to two things...

1) the internal civil war in Islam between the shia and the sunni

2) repressive dictators either suppressing their populace or openly fighting (parts) of them (ie Syria)

we let the genie out of the lamp a bit by toppling the bathist Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq but the tensions were already there. Saddam just (brutally) kept a lid on them whilst periodically engaging in genocide within his borders (Kurds) or aggressive invasions or neighboring countries (Iran and Kuwait)

it's a complete fallacy that we would be left alone and all would be ok if we left the middle east to itself

Ok so, devil's advocate, all the trouble in the Middle East is down to internal Islamic infighting.

Shouldn't they be fighting each other? Why are extremists able to recruit people born and bred in the West to go and murder their neighbours? Bearing in mind this didn't happen in the 20th Century.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

A good watch.....

 

[Amp34]

Firstly, I doubt that would deter them. Secondly, you sound awfully keen on something you aren't condoning.

If you're willing to blow yourself up then it's likely that they will probably just consider their families martyrs like themselves and that they will see them in heaven/after judgement day.

Im not condoning it and thankfully ill never be in a position where ill have to decide to enforce such a policy. But these are the tactics used throughout ages to deal with insurgents and terroists.

It worked with the romans and mohammad himself used a similar policy to deal with some jews who plotted to kill him

It's also been extremely counterproductive many times in history, causing regimes and countries to topple.

One could argue that very recently Syria and Libya tried this tactic - look what happened to them. It was a "tried and tested" method in a lot of colonies in the early 20th century and was a large part of why European nations decided to leave. You create those sort of policies and you're liable to find a large proportion of the population rising up against you - not because they support the initial act, but because you've just killed their friend or family member because they are associated with (but were innocent themselves) someone that did perpetuate an act.

 

[Nitefly]

Other than increasing state security expenditure and the surveillance of known individuals there isn't much you can do unfortunately - the risk of these attacks is an artefact of living in a gloriously free thinking, welcoming and duly tolerant society.

There's a very upsetting but visually detailing audio account on the BBC from a mum ('Emma' IIRC) - sounds absolutely horrendous

 

[Amp34]

.....

So your recommendation is to target the violent ones, those violent ones that are probably most likely to fight back, giving more people a reason to fight.

Again, that'll work. Well done you've just created a religious war, something ISIS have been trying to create for the last few years.

As usual with blanket policies like that, all it will do is disproportionally affect those it didn't need to affect and create more issues with those that it may have meant to affect.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Which can be reduced by multiple entrances and entry times to stagger people out further reducing the risk.

So TSA for gigs, basically.

 

[Dis86]

Some lovely speeches on the news and very nice sentiments from countries that we traditionally don't get along with.

 

[tayto_0]

I've never subscribed to the "Why don't the Muslims speak out against this sort of thing" train of thought, believing that Muslims as a whole shouldn't need to apologise for every nutcase that shares their faith. Anyway, they have.

It's not about them speaking out publicly or apologising. It's about tackling this at a grass root level. Unfortunately while these communities as a whole are not responsible for these atrocities they are the only ones with any real influence.

Contrary to what the experts tell us the problem isn't some loner becoming radicalised by a video he watched online, this is being passed down through generations, It becomes acceptable within families to express disdain for the very country they were born in, to praise and make excuses for terrorists.

People talk, you know within your community the people/families who hold these views. It's not fair that the decent people are being asked to bravely confront this but it is the only way this will ever change.

I know what 1000s of us done when the IRA bomb Birmingham. It worked and they never planted a bomb in Birmingham again.

I can assure you that would have had absolutely no effect on the IRAs bombing campaign. If anything it would have swollen their ranks.

 

[magick]

One could argue that very recently Syria and Libya tried this tactic - look what happened to them.

What happened to them , our governments started arming and bankrolling thhe sort of people that did last night's bombing

 

[D.P.]

Ok so, devil's advocate, all the trouble in the Middle East is down to internal Islamic infighting.

Shouldn't they be fighting each other? Why are extremists able to recruit people born and bred in the West to go and murder their neighbours? Bearing in mind this didn't happen in the 20th Century.

They are fighting each other. Muslims are by far the biggest grouop that suffers terrorists attacks from other Muslims.