Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

Like most things it's not absolute, but intervening where we can is a must imho.
Prevention > cure

More money needs to be invested in at risk community's so we can try and prevent radicalisation of young impressionable Muslims
 
mid_gen said:
Ok so, devil's advocate, all the trouble in the Middle East is down to internal Islamic infighting.

Shouldn't they be fighting each other? Why are extremists able to recruit people born and bred in the West to go and murder their neighbours? Bearing in mind this didn't happen in the 20th Century.
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we didn't have mass worldwide travel, mass immigration from other continents and social media in the earlier parts of the 20th century and Islamic terrorism did start to increase from the 80's onwards.

I said 'most' of the violence they clearly 'are' fighting each other on the middle east- look at the news!. Most western terrorists incidents are due to a toxic belief that there should be a worldwide Islamic caliphate and that violence is the way to achieve this.

I was simply pointing out the ridiculous notion that you can simply just blame the 'west' for all the bills of the middle east whilst ignoring things like the legacy of the Ottoman empire and the islamic civil war which predate any of the modern 'western' intervention since the 20th century
 
Dis86 said:
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Osama was a ringleader. You'll notice it wasn't him flying the planes into the buildings. Although this is still a bit of a dead end as his minions were likewise well enough educated to be trained pilots.

The issue of their lives being in some way hopeless is more crucial.
 
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The Legacy of the Ottomans is also the legacy of Europe, you cant disconnect them. Also strange how over 100 years of US support for a certain monarchy in the Arabian peninsula and then constant CIA action in all of the nations in the area strangely seems to have some consequences.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Like most things it's not absolute, but intervening where we can is a must imho.
Prevention > cure

More money needs to be invested in at risk community's so we can try and prevent radicalisation of young impressionable Muslims
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Get the saudis to put some money, they are funding the spread of islam in the west
 
Vonhelmet said:
No, I'm just tired of these things being met with lazy responses around locking up everyone or banning all religion. I'm not excusing him.
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would you care to point out where I advocated anything like that ? ( I know others have) .....so care to explain how uk foreign policy provides an explanation for the specific actions of this terrorist?
 
dowie said:
While wars do seem to be a feature of human history I'm not sure I'd call deliberately blowing up kids 'human nature'... that sort of requires some convoluted justification - in this case perhaps an ideological stance that paints them as less than/2nd class humans less worthy of life. The trans Atlantic slave trade was previously justified because black people were seen as sub human, the holocaust was justified because jewish people and some other groups were seen as sub human. In this case we've got an ideology deeming 'infidels' to be less worthy of life. Removing Nazisim didn't case something to take it's place in continental Europe and I don't see why something need take the place of fundamentalist Islam either. Hopefully as the world progresses and education improves we'll find fewer and fewer people believing in ancient religions in general anyway.
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I think you're thinking too specifically into the comment.

I'm not suggesting that blowing up kids is human nature - but violence and trying to advance your cause using it.

I'm also not suggesting that something is going to directly replace Islamic fundamentalism, rather another cause will almost certainly appear to bomb and kill innocent people even if the troubles today are solved. Before Islamic fundamentalism we had the IRA and a long list of other terrorist organizations and plotters. It's been going on for hundreds of years - for example Guy Folkes and his crew - and I doubt it's going to stop anytime soon.

You're also right the dehumanizing aspect. It seems to happen throughout history as a way of justifying the actions of those that are attacking or oppressing another group of people. Let's not pretend it's just the "bad guys" that do it though, it seems to be another part of human nature endemic to our species.
 
StriderX said:
The Legacy of the Ottomans is also the legacy of Europe, you cant disconnect them. Also strange how over 100 years of US support for a certain monarchy in the Arabian peninsula and then constant CIA action in all of the nations in the area strangely seems to have some consequences.
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are you suggesting removing support for the house of Saud ...would be good move for the west? They may be corrupt and rather shady but the Arab spring is a cautionary tale here
 
My favourite responce to this so far. For better than anything that I've come up with. It's by PolarHailStorm on imgur *I've made it family friendly for here*

What's next? A pub in Ireland on a Friday night after payday?

Living in this country and experiencing multiple terror attacks along with other forms of life-threatening disruption, I can whole-heartedly say anyone that thinks it'd work is a pillock.

Let's go back to the 7/7 bus bombings. A tragedy, but one faced with shock that turned into resolve. They bring their actions to these shores and think they'll, what? Spread fear? Hate? You still had people standing at the bus stops days after getting annoyed that the buses were late despite there being an attack prior. It became a focal point for comedians, too. The great British resolve is 4 parts apathy, 2 parts muttering under their breath and 4 parts complaining *poop* hadn't been sorted out.

How about the jeep being driven full force into Glasgow Airport? Why the *fornication* would you think that Glasgow Airport is a prime target for your agenda? Did no one do any research before they decided on a target and think to themselves 'What could possibly go wrong in Scotland?'

Did people scream in terror and run to hide beneath mother's skirts? Were there tears and cries for mercy and forgiveness? No. There were people like John Smeaton, whose first act was to RUN UP TO THE TERRORIST AND KICK HIM IN THE *LOVESPUDS* NEXT TO HIS BURNING JEEP FILLED WITH EXPLOSIVES. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smeaton_(born_1976) )

What sort of terror are you trying to provoke there? I swear to *fornication* those lads have had more terror incidents after a night on the town and a dodgy curry than anything extremists could throw at them. *Fornicating* dingbats.

Remember Westminster Abbey? PC Palmer and several others lost their lives during that vengeful stunt (I call it a stunt because it had as much terror as Vanessa Feltz tucking into some pastries) and what happened? You had members of the public aiding those hurt alongside the emergency services, whether it was performing medical aid or the men fishing the woman out of the river, supporting any and all they could, not giving a *fornication* about the situation around them. Getting the job done. Ronseal.

Now we have the concert in Manchester being the recent target, and while those wounds are fresh, while there is sorrow and anger and shock, I feel firm in my belief that we will not break from this, or anything that's thrown our way. The great British stiff upper lip remains.

I get it, I do. Spread fear and hate and associate it with despicable acts so blame is passed onto Ahmed, the Muslim dude who works down the road, minding his own business. Use loss of life and injury and suffering as a repercussion for any slight you feel that's been incurred on your religion, your country, whatever.

But what you don't get is that we don't remember you. We don't care about you. You get swarmed under the national spirit of apathy while people like John Smeaton laughs about you in the pub with his mates telling the story about how he kicked a terrorist in the balls so hard he injured his own leg. You get stories of men and women that see *poop* going down and run towards it, sharing that big problem down into bite-sized chunks and solving it minute by minute. You get the survivors, recovering, regaining what you tried to take from them and you get those that didn't survive, forever etched into hearts and minds. There's no room for you there.

Go try the pub, by the way. Those boys will see to your lucky charms all right.
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magick said:
I've read both the bible and the Koran. I'd say the Koran is better for mass manipulation than the bible.

If you want true spiritual wisdom read the Tao Te Ching
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Islam was created by an openly aggressive Empire building Warlord.

The main message was "Join us, Be Enslaved, or Die"

You can get an awful lot of enthusiastic new recruits that way... :/

(Especially if you have the promise of being able to exploit the Slaves every which way you might want to! )
 
UK government must know a lot of the 'likely' terrorist suspects in the UK. Kick the buggerss out and even if born here, send them to an islamic based country where the morons can live out their sick dreams!
 
Imagine a world without religion, how much further would humanity have progressed. We'd probably be on other planets by now.

Instead we're still killing each other for no reason, as we've done for thousands of years.

I don't blame religion for this actually. Religion is used as a cover for fundamental human qualities that need to be expressed in some way by a small number of individuals. Anger, hate, violence will always exist. Weak people will always exist. If they didn't use religion they'd just find some other crux to rationalise their actions.

It's a difficult conundrum. I do think raising children religiously should be treated as child abuse, simply because it's unfair to have that much influence over a growing human mind from such an early age, potentially limiting their potential. Parents don't realise how much they influence their children and in what ways but I do think religion is fundamentally more a bad influence than it is good.
 
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