Mantle Feedback/Bugs

[nicnik]

Considering the hype and effort put into advertising BF4 with Mantle and Mantle itself I think several of the main bugs should not be in this release regardless of whether its a BETA. Advertising Mantle as being for 7xxx and R9 series to then say that its 'likely' that over 65% of your user base (rough guess of the 7xxx to R9 ratio am sure its higher to the 7xxx) won't be able to use it properly on the already delayed release is a poor show.

Just don't use it until a more stable release comes out. It's a new API, was expecting problems worse than this tbh

Hardly the best game to debut mantle too.

 

[jrodga2k5]

Ok so I've done a quick comparison the Campaign from the same scene, it's difficult to get it exactly right but the wind and rain keep things rather intensive.

As they both fluctuated it was difficult to choose the best so I decided to see where both settled at their highest point and try to screen grab then...more frustrating than I thought

CPU: i7 [email protected]
GPU: R9 290 @ 1050/1350
Res: 1920x1080 (Windowed so essentially 1920x1017)

Mantle 54FPS

Spoiler

DX11.1 52FPS

Spoiler

So we have approx 4% increase using Mantle over DX11.1 here.

I will say I generally experienced a much smoother experience with Mantle when playing the actual campaign map and also while playing the multiplayer.

As for the reported stutter I had it a couple of times over an hours gameplay which is nothing to me really, the much smoother frame rate was appreciated however.

I'm going to try the CPU @ default clocks and see what the FPS falls to and also increase the OC on the CPU to see the increase if any.

Decent first release for what is essentially an alpha/beta.

 

[AllBodies]

Ok so I've done a quick comparison the Campaign from the same scene, it's difficult to get it exactly right but the wind and rain keep things rather intensive.

As they both fluctuated it was difficult to choose the best so I decided to see where both settled at their highest point and try to screen grab then...more frustrating than I thought

CPU: i7 [email protected]
GPU: R9 290 @ 1050/1350
Res: 1920x1080 (Windowed so essentially 1920x1017)

Mantle 54FPS

Spoiler

DX11.1 52FPS

Spoiler

So we have approx 4% increase using Mantle over DX11.1 here.

I will say I generally experienced a much smoother experience with Mantle when playing the actual campaign map and also while playing the multiplayer.

As for the reported stutter I had it a couple of times over an hours gameplay which is nothing to me really, the much smoother frame rate was appreciated however.

I'm going to try the CPU @ default clocks and see what the FPS falls to and also increase the OC on the CPU to see the increase if any.

Decent first release for what is essentially an alpha/beta.

You're not going to see much increase with mantle with that hardware and in that situation.

Your CPU and GPU are very well matched (in that they're both powerful, and neither is holding the other back), and mantle is mostly for CPU bound instances.

You'd be better off testing a 64-man multiplayer server, since that's the most CPU bound situation you're going to get in BF4.

I know that'll make it harder to get a consistent test, but that's the situation mantle is for.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

It was fine for a while , plenty of discussion on performance , possible bugs/solutions etc until certain people showed up criticising everything.

In fairness it takes 2 people to argue...

And I know thread about Nvidia tech aren't usually any better. It's just a pity is all.

Personally despite both rigs currently running AMD cards I've not tried drivers yet. I'm not a massive fan of BETA drivers (I will use them but prefer the WHQL ones, partly because the BETA ones don't like installing on my system), but I also don't really play BF4 and probably won't play Thief much (only got it as I had AMD rewards to use up), so there's no real rush for me. I think Mass Effect is the only announced title that interests me (although I've forgotten a lot of them, which would suggest they don't interest me).
So by the time that's out and I've actually played 2 and 3, I'm hoping we'll have a better idea about what's what.

Maybe by then we'll know if Nvidia are going to use it or if they'll do one of their own or if they'll stick with OpenGL and how that will turn out...
If Nvidia don't use it then I think either Mantle's days could be numbered or Nvidia's. Assuming that the gains are significant, but I'm not getting into that at this stage of things.

 

[SiDeards73]

Come on Gregster seriously mate, stop baiting. Be the bigger man for once and just walk away from this thread.

So, can someone with a single 290 and a 4770k put both to stock and do a quick round of locker for me with it set to the Ultra preset? I'm concerned about my fps figures. Getting low 60's outside on the map doesn't seem right to me

 

[Scarlightmike]

Hmm Thats actually not a bad way to look at it.

Okay, putting BF4 Mantle in a "plus and Minus" vein, please feel free to pick from this and tell me I am wrong.

On the Mantle plus:

1. More fps

On the minus side:

1. Stutter
2. big frame drops
3. fogging
4. crashing
5. memory leaks

Am I so wrong?

Plus side:
More Fps: yes, in high player maps only though

Minus:
Stutter: Not for me, 5 MP games and feels good
Frame drops: yes, every 2 minutes or so. 120 - 20. Gets you killed
Fogging: I'm really not sure what i'm looking for here. Any more screenshots?
Crashing: Not yet
Memory leaks: Out of 2 games testing for leaks, not for me.

Personally I'm on the fence, Yes frame rate really is up and things feel smooth and responsive and yes this really is a beta and so it can't be too much of a surprise of its instability and issues... however, I'm also a little bit disappointed I guess. Not ungrateful but feel like this is one of those situations where we all wanted something huge to blow us away.
To make an analogy(albeit a shallow one), it's like buying something you think will blow someone away and Christmas, only to see they are just doing their best to be exited and happy... wasn't what they were expecting or looking forward to though.
Of course, can't leave without saying that mantle is so fresh and new! I see a lot of potential and really, thief and the next few up and coming mantle titles will really decide the fate of the new API.

 

[Suarez7]

Forums are full of jealous Nvidia owners desperately looking for problems in a sad attempt to justify their purchase.

Let it go.

?

Considering they could quite easily sell up and just get an AMD card without any or little loss I don't think it's about jealousy.

I actually think the launch has went better than expected seems to be lots of people who are pleased with it

 

[kitch9]

?

Considering they could quite easily sell up and just get an AMD card without any or little loss I don't think it's about jealousy.

I actually think the launch has went better than expected seems to be lots of people who are pleased with it

Doesn't stop it happening though.

 

[jrodga2k5]

You're not going to see much increase with mantle with that hardware and in that situation.

Your CPU and GPU are very well matched (in that they're both powerful, and neither is holding the other back), and mantle is mostly for CPU bound instances.

You'd be better off testing a 64-man multiplayer server, since that's the most CPU bound situation you're going to get in BF4.

I know that'll make it harder to get a consistent test, but that's the situation mantle is for.

Yeah I get that, the multiplayer games I've had with mantle applied have been where I've truly felt a big difference to be fair.

The campaign gives a bit of an idea and it's still a gain I'll try to get a multiplayer sever for it soon.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

I have after a re-install of drivers got BF4 running with mantle nice and smooth although tbh I'm not really seeing much difference between the two now. It feels different but wouldn't say it is noticeable smoother just a different feel.

Maybe multi GPU cards and high refresh rates will see better results ?

 

[Gregster]

1- Form me BF4 crashed JUST once. No big deal for me. With Dx I crashed twice iirc. It's actually possible since it's alpha/beta whatever
2- "Foggy" images is different than the real fog of debris in SoS level. For all the levels (incl SoS) the apparent fog IS A BUG, from THE GAME'S SIDE, as it's been already covered by Johan Andersson and will be patched. But still there is no way to prove OR disprove if the objects behind this fog is still rendered or not and/or IF there is a performance gain from that, is Mantle's increase completely due to that or not.
3- Alphas/Betas are a good thing, IT IS UP TO YOU TO JOIN OR NOT, since you do not join or have the means to join, I can take your positive comments or careful critics with ease but not your negative cynicism sorry, same goes for gcn card owners too. There is still Dx to fall back to if you can't cope with the downfalls of Betas, which btw always are positive to have to begin with.
4- Betas are always little to huge problematic, but depends on the back and forth between the developers and users. We, as the PC community, are lucky to have the ability to beta sample things VOLUNTARILY before it is finalized or reaches production stage; it is lot better than to have an end product you had no input into, or to have a production going back to earlier stages before release. And it is not cool to interpret this as incompetence of developers burdening us users with bugs instead of doing their debugging. When a software or a game goes live, there is always a possibility of having mild to extreme bugs/crashes/conflicts. For me alphas should be left to "no-whiners" for lack of a better word, as they will be using it to betterment in positive manner while having all or some of the negative issues. Can you remember a PS3 game that you help shaped? PC environment can use it's diverse base for it's own betterment, so that it's not just it's achilles heel but one of it's strong points.

Sorry for the rant, but seeing people who were reasonable before the release, acting like opposite right after the release is baffling since they have been already warned this would happen for it is Beta AND they are the ones who have been acknowledging that too.

All good points and very fair. Like I say, I want to see Mantle do well. I am all for it and OGL and DX to kick into gear as well. I have consoles but the only real platform for me is PC. The problem for me is AMD and again messing up on a great opportunity. They could have made the PC world stand up and listen but they are missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity AGAIN.

AMD annoy me for being AMD. They have great idea's but we have BF4 release broken for the masses, Oxide demo is, I feel, purposefully breaking DX to make it look better. If I seem to be harsh on AMD, that is because I want to see them do well but damn, they are not helping themselves and giving everyone the opportunity to jump on them. If BF4 was released and people had massive gains on all GCN or even just small gains on all GCN and the game worked well, nobody could jump on them.....


Arghhhh as an enthusiast, I am frustrated.

 

[DamnedLife]

Well I don't know, why did they even release it with all these known issues? They should've just waited until they'd ironed some of them out, rushing it out will just give them a bad reputation.

Bc I liked to have it to participate in the process, and people like me also wanted it and yes there are actually people like me (strange right?) and AMD actually listened to us (not in the general sense but us in the people who I just described) and released it to us. Now we get to play with it, crash with it and if it gets boring and troublesome, let it back to others like us, go back to Dx and wait it until it is not so troublesome for us anymore. Beta is a process, if you can't tolerate it yourself, it is simple as "do not participate", but you have to tolerate it nonetheless.

I sent two surveys to AMD, if I can help in the slightest for debugging and releasing a better driver, then this Beta has reached it's purposed. We are still arguing over the context of Beta and what it means.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Windows+7+-+64 This site has two versions, BF4 has two render paths. No more arguing on why. Why indeed.

 

[nicnik]

So is crossfire 290x/290 working with mantle, and if so on 64 man servers is there a big difference? Anyone with it working care to post (gonna look through 13 pages now >.<)

 

[bazman25]

what FPS software are people using? I have afterburner but it doesn't seem to be working?

 

[stulid]

And another ATI thread turns into a cesspit of rubbish pointless posts. I have removed some and one certain Youtube clip. I dont want to have to come back in here and do any more tidying up.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

what FPS software are people using? I have afterburner but it doesn't seem to be working?

just in game fps benchmark works at the minute. i forget the console command for it.
to see fps type this in console
perfoverlay.drawfps 1

 

[shankly1985]

Typical reactions from you both Gregster and Rroff, not surprising in the slightest considering your bias, but it's always disappointing. You do know you're not fooling anyone with your "objectivity"?

Have you tried it for yourself?

1) Fog isn't present in every level
2) People are posting substantial fps and frame time gains in multiplayer
3) The 7000 and 8000 series cards aren't fully supported (read the driver notes)
4) Even if Mantle renders things slightly differently, it doesn't look different enough from DX11 for anyone to be able to immediately call it, otherwise this would have been news already. Therefore even if this were true, the degree it may have been done to, it's irrelevant. The same would be said of the DX11 slightly reducing its visual fidelity to boots performance in this scenario.

Good point on the Fog not on all map Siege of Shanghai I dont think is effected.

 

[bazman25]

just in game fps benchmark works at the minute. i forget the console command for it.
to see fps type this in console
perfoverlay.drawfps 1

thanks

 

[shankly1985]

Okay, putting BF4 Mantle in a "plus and Minus" vein, please feel free to pick from this and tell me I am wrong.

On the Mantle plus:

1. More fps

On the minus side:

1. Stutter
2. big frame drops
3. fogging
4. crashing
5. memory leaks

Am I so wrong?

On the + I would add better frame time's seems smoother
+ Crossfire don't need full screen works now in Alt-Tab

-I would remove for me Frame drops and I dont start stutter till its just about to crash, before that its smooth as.

 

[Gregster]

On the + I would add better frame time's seems smoother
+ Crossfire don't need full screen works now in Alt-Tab

-I would remove for me Frame drops and I dont start stutter till its just about to crash, before that its smooth as.

The crossfire is a big plus Shanks. If like me, you have 2 screens, it is a proper bonus to be able to switch screen mid game and crack on with other things. Nowt worse than having 2 cards but only one works becasue you are in windowed mode.