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Mantle Feedback/Bugs

humbug said:
Just been reading through this thread. again and again most of what i read is Roff and Gregster enforcing how bad Mantle has turned out and trying to convince everyone of it.

This kind of stuff is getting extremely tiresome to read over and over again with a constant never failing continuation from the same few.

So much energy being put into that constant negativity around anything AMD ever do, nothing else in their lives?

Why? they don't even own AMD GPU's and have no intention of ever buying any.
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Maybe go back and re-read some of my posts (not just the ones in this thread) - for all the ones that I've made that are critical I've also made just as many along the lines of:

Rroff said:
If mantle allows artists to implement something that is closer to their original vision with less compromises due to technical limitations thats a big win and the merit it should be judged on. Unfortunatly if it doesn't deliver a massive performance difference a lot of people are going to write it off without realising what it actually brings to the table.
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Unfortunatly as with someone earlier some of you seem to completely miss the posts where I'm not being negative :| and getting a very skewed picture of my actual stance on this.
 
DazQ87 said:
Anybody else notice a huge increase in memory usage when running in mantle mode?
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I never get the point of people bringing this one up, I know you said you weren't complaining but if a system has RAM in it, whats it for? Surely a game or app should use as much as it can, thats what its there for no?
 
Trig said:
I never get the point of people bringing this one up, I know you said you weren't complaining but if a system has RAM in it, whats it for? Surely a game or app should use as much as it can, thats what its there for no?
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Was more of an observation than anything to be honest. If it wants to use more memory then it should, its not like I don't have enough.
 
Hmmm is AA broken on these drivers? I tryed 16x supersampling in Portal 2 and theres jaggies everywhere..Same with some others games too...

Seems when i force Supersampling in the CCC it does nothing.
 
DazQ87 said:
Was more of an observation than anything to be honest. If it wants to use more memory then it should, its not like I don't have enough.
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Some people in this thread think there could be a memory leak which could be the reason you are seeing higher memory usage. On a long play session this would cause bf4 to use more and more memory the longer you play.
 
Trig said:
I never get the point of people bringing this one up, I know you said you weren't complaining but if a system has RAM in it, whats it for? Surely a game or app should use as much as it can, thats what its there for no?
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people bring it up as its something they feel has changed just like others bring up increased fps
title says mantle user review/performance thread hes simply stating his review and asking if other have it
 
Incase anyone is wondering these drivers take your CCC colour temp down to 6400k....which gives off a red tint.

I'v put mine back up to 6500k.
 
hi everyone,

Well think its got a bit heated up in here tonight, think a good sleep for everyone is called for,

been doing some testing tonight and i must say i think mantle could be the game changer we have been waiting for, I do understand the concerns & yes it's not perfect, AMD's own issue log tells us that & it's either the contrast rate or the gamma base line that's to high as its crushing some detail, so that needs a tweak but overall it looks the same.


LtMatt what's the current thinking on a bench run, just been running the last level on single player from the plane jump onto the boat until the first com tower falls "Irish says i hope garrison was not in there" so maybe 2 mins from the drop.

During that section i have seen frame rates almost double the DX11 at times with much higher lows & avg, it seems to have a bit of everything that section plus lots of it is on a rail so helps keep the bench as static as possible.

will try to get some data on it Monday getting late now but to me its look like a good start, its a flawed start but still once the bugs get sorted out i think we have a keeper.:)
 
A good benchmark would be something that has a mix of enclosed and open spaces, especially a bit of a built up area like in shanghai, unfortunatly don't really know the campaign well enough to suggest an area.
 
Home from work to find this thread's grown a bit:eek:

Can't believe the amount of crap that's being thrown about by the usual suspects..

Mantle- it's still in beta, with beta drivers, performance increases are there for those using the (at the moment) supported hardware.

Yes there's issues but you'd have to be very naive to think there wasn't going to be..what i've seen so far i'm very impressed with, i have no doubt that these current issues will be fixed and there's more performance to come to a wider range of cards.

A lot of Nvidia owner seem all to eager to jump on AMD because this wasn't a "perfect bug free launch"..

Tell me, when was the last time Nvidia launched a new bug-free Api?;)

Kudos to AMD for trying something new, like most new things it's not perfect, but it works.. and things can only get better i feel.
 
uksoldierboy said:
Tell me, when was the last time Nvidia launched a new bug-free Api?;)
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I dunno about bug free but um CUDA, the various game work libraries, even PhysX are pretty robust and were so from beta releases onwards - albeit PhysX isn't their original work, you can also probably throw 3D Vision/W&B, OptiX, etc. APIs in there.

While some of those aren't rendering APIs in the vein of mantle, you can compare stuff like game works and their open gl extensions which are generally pretty much working out the box without major issues.
 
Running Star Swarm benchmark

Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 17104


Average FPS: 47.51
Average Unit Count: 4671
Maximum Unit Count: 5859
Average Batches/MS: 869.21
Maximum Batches/MS: 2079.45
Average Batch Count: 20837
Maximum Batch Count: 129899

Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 10175


Average FPS: 28.26
Average Unit Count: 4248
Maximum Unit Count: 5493
Average Batches/MS: 422.16
Maximum Batches/MS: 1018.21
Average Batch Count: 17047
Maximum Batch Count: 95980

My results, mantle being the first.
 
uksoldierboy said:
Come on Rroff :rolleyes:

It's not the same, i'm not trying to bring down Nvidia here, all i'm saying is that what AMD have done with Mantle is something completely new.
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They have plenty of APIs that are comparable to Mantle in complexity and/or breaking new ground that were robust and mostly free of major bugs from the first major release - even if they've never created a full on DX alternative - though some of their work on Open GL is broadly comparable to the complexity involved in developing mantle.

Not really a good point to bring up as nVidia have a good track record with developing APIs in general and some of them are as ground breaking for rendering as Mantle just in different ways (i.e. look at some of the videos about game works especially stuff like OptiX).
 
I have serious problems with Mantle on BF4, i really do. its an unplayable mess, it seems a small number of others are having the same problem.

I don't know whats wrong, what i do know is the Star Swarm App works well in Mantle. no problems, just BF4.

Its just to soon to blame AMD, knowing BF4's history, especially.
I'm actually very apprehensive to say anything critical myself about AMD, through fear of it being used by some to drive home an agenda. It seems to me a very few but loud are far to trigger happy to jump on AMD when almost anything goes wrong, even if the facts are not known.
It seems to me those few sit and wait for an excuse to jump on AMD, and i'm far from alone in that opinion.
 
Rroff said:
They have plenty of APIs that are comparable to Mantle in complexity and/or breaking new ground that were robust and mostly free of major bugs from the first major release - even if they've never created a full on DX alternative - though some of their work on Open GL is broadly comparable to the complexity involved in developing mantle.

Not really a good point to bring up as nVidia have a good track record with developing APIs in general and some of them are as ground breaking for rendering as Mantle just in different ways (i.e. look at some of the videos about game works especially stuff like OptiX).
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Ah great, i have a 780 laying about here, could you point me in the direction of a game where i can switch from using DX to a Nvidia made rendering Api then?
No, well then in my eyes it's not the same, it's easy to assume they would have had a perfect bug free launch when they haven't done the same thing.

Isn't Optix just used in GPU farming for ray tracing and global illumination?

Regardless, i really can't be arsed to argue a point that's just my opinion.
You have your's and i respect that, i just don't agree with it.

time for bed.
 
humbug said:
I have serious problems with Mantle on BF4, i really do. its an unplayable mess, it seems a small number of others are having the same problem.

I don't know whats wrong, what i do know is the Star Swarm App works well in Mantle. no problems, just BF4.

Its just to soon to blame AMD, knowing BF4's history, especially.
I'm actually very apprehensive to say anything critical myself about AMD, through fear of it being used by some to drive home an agenda. It seems to me a very few but loud are far to trigger happy to jump on AMD when almost anything goes wrong, even if the facts are not known.
It seems to me those few sit and wait for an excuse to jump on AMD, and i'm far from alone in that opinion.
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Hence my comments earlier in this thread like:

"Thats the problem its pretty hard atm to tell what is a BF4 bug and what is a mantle issue and given its BF4 its easy to err on the side of dice being incompetent "

Which seem to be overlooked by many...

uksoldierboy said:
Ah great, i have a 780 laying about here, could you point me in the direction of a game where i can switch from using DX to a Nvidia made rendering Api then?
No, well then in my eyes it's not the same, it's easy to assume they would have had a perfect bug free launch when they haven't done the same thing.

Isn't Optix just used in GPU farming for ray tracing and global illumination?

Regardless, i really can't be arsed to argue a point that's just my opinion.
You have your's and i respect that, i just don't agree with it.

time for bed.
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Not that I'm a great fan but there are games like Batman AO and AC Black flag where you can enable and/or use some of those features. Not really intending to be difficult about the subject but when it comes to nVidia and API development its not really an area to compare them against AMD, they have a ton more rendering API development experience/track record (i.e. some of their stuff is used as industry standards in move production, etc. etc.) even if they haven't created something thats exactly like Mantle.
 
Rroff said:
Hence my comments earlier in this thread like:

"Thats the problem its pretty hard atm to tell what is a BF4 bug and what is a mantle issue and given its BF4 its easy to err on the side of dice being incompetent "

Which seem to be overlooked by many...



Not that I'm a great fan but there are games like Batman AO and AC Black flag where you can enable and/or use some of those features. Not really intending to be difficult about the subject but when it comes to nVidia and API development its not really an area to compare them against AMD, they have a ton more rendering API development experience/track record (i.e. some of their stuff is used as industry standards in move production, etc. etc.) even if they haven't created something thats exactly like Mantle.
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You actually weren't one of the people that came to mind when I posted first Rroff.

I understand what your saying pal and I agree with it mostly, but my comment about them not making a complete rendering Api for games still stands, I never implied that they couldn't, all I meant was that to think that it would be bug free at launch is nothing more than an assumption, and assumption is the mother of all **** ups.

MANTLE hasn't been helped I think by launching with bf4 in its current state, ( although by all accounts it's been tacked on rather than being developed from the start with it)

I just think that Mantle is off to a decent start, I'm very impressed so far by the gains I've seen in bf4 especially online, anywhere from 15-20fps in each maps on my system.

I look forward to Thief and seeing what performance increases Mantle brings to that.
 
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