Matrix Reloaded - Discuss [WARNING SPOILER]

cyKey · 27 May 2003 at 15:31

Originally posted by azaniah
Still makes no sense...

The matrix is there to keep us occupied. It's an illusion, it feeds our senses, reacts to our responses.

Humans are not part of the software tho'. They are affected by it, and respond to it. The Matrix is not the humans, it is "the illusion that blinds up from the truth".

If it were that easy, then as soon as anyone plugged into the matrix, the matrix would simply absorb them. Remove that software blip. It wouldn't need to kill anyone, send out agents. It would just sense the entry and "delete".

When you load Word does Windows absorb it? The Matrix is just an OS to us. We are all programs running around in it. Are the agents there to stop us, or just to help coax out the ones who are like Neo?

azaniah · 27 May 2003 at 15:35

I can see that, however you would think they would have an equivalent anti-virus, pop-up programme.

I knows we are a "virus" for want of a better word. It can detect anomolies in the system (ie the fact we are plugged in). The O/S must know what process' are running (like word). And then if not authorized, kill the process.

Sharknose · 27 May 2003 at 15:39

Quick question.

In the film, whenever they are 'in the Matrix', the film is tinted green. Whenever they are in the real world, the film is tinted blue.

Now, IIRC, during the scene with Persophone, and Neos fight just after that, I'm sure the film was not tinted at all!!

Am I imagine things, or is it just a glitch in the Matrix

... or does it signify that there were somewhere else!

azaniah · 27 May 2003 at 15:41

Can't say I noticed that...

Darn something else to ponder...

jamesrw · 27 May 2003 at 15:41

Why does Bane(?) cut his hand at the start after Smith does that thing to him?

cyKey · 27 May 2003 at 15:59

Originally posted by jamesrw
Why does Bane(?) cut his hand at the start after Smith does that thing to him?

Possibly beacause Agents don't bleed.

Sharknose · 27 May 2003 at 16:38

Some stuff I found.

In an interview, Monica Bellucci explains the character of Persephone:

Persephone, in Greek mythology, is the daughter of Zeus, the king of the gods, and the goddess of fertility, Demeter. [Persephone] was kidnapped by Hades, the king of the underworld to be his queen. She was allowed to come back into the living world for part of the year. This tells us a lot about Persephone [in The Matrix: Reloaded]. She's living between two worlds. She's just another program from an old matrix, so she's not human, but she wants to feel human emotions. She's like a vampire of emotions. She doesn't feel anything herself, she can only feel things through others. There's something really sad and tragic about her. She's sensual, she's dangerous, but she's also desperate.

The interview also contains this interesting exchange:

Q: You talk about the old Matrix programs having created myths like vampires and werewolves and things in previous versions of the Matrix. Your character kills with a silver bullet in one scene. Does that mean that the character you kill is a werewolf?

A: Yes. But it also means that Persephone just knows how to kill another program from an older Matrix.

and

The Merovingian Mythos:
Its Symbolic Significance and its Roots in the Ancient Kingdom of Atlantis
by Tracy R. Twyman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Frankish King Dagobert II, and the Merovingian dynasty from which he came, have been romantically mythologized in the annals of both local legend and modern mystical pseudo-history, but few have understood the true meaning and origins of their alluring mystery. The mystique that surrounds them includes attributions of saintliness, magical powers (derived from their long red hair), and even divine origin, stemming from their supposed descent from the one and only Jesus Christ. However, the importance of the divine origin of the Merovingians, and the antiquity from whence it comes, has never to this author's knowledge been fully explored by any writer or historian. As Boyd Rice and I will explain in more detail in our forthcoming book, we have uncovered mountains of evidence which indicates that the origins of the Merovingian race, and the mystery that surrounds them, lies ultimately with a race of beings, "Nephilim," or "Fallen Angels," who created mankind as we know him today, and with a civilization, far more ancient than recorded history, from which came all of the major arts and sciences that are basic to civilizations everywhere, even unto today. As we intend to show, all of the myths and symbolism that are associated with this dynasty can, in fact, be traced back to this earlier civilization. It is known, in some cultures, as Atlantis, although there are many names for it, and it is the birthplace of agriculture, astronomy, mathematics, metallurgy, navigation, architecture, language, writing, and religion. It was also the source of the first government on Earth - monarchy. And the first kings on Earth were the gods.

I'll leave it up to you guys to interpret as you want.

Dj_Jestar · 27 May 2003 at 16:45

I oringinally watchd the Matrix with the mind of it being a metaphor for the world as we know it and the Myth's of Gods and Goddesses.

If you ask me the brothers are Genius' to have created such a story

Garp · 27 May 2003 at 16:46

Originally posted by jamesrw
Why does Bane(?) cut his hand at the start after Smith does that thing to him?

It's a delightful bit of masochism

It's just to build up on the whole "how twisted is agent smith" thing. Remember by this time Bane no longer exists, he's been over-written, for want of a better word, by Smith.

Dj_Jestar · 27 May 2003 at 16:47

Originally posted by Garp
It's a delightful bit of masochism
It's just to build up on the whole "how twisted is agent smith" thing. Remember by this time Bane no longer exists, he's been over-written, for want of a better word, by Smith.

Replaced

jamesrw · 27 May 2003 at 17:45

Originally posted by Garp
It's a delightful bit of masochism
It's just to build up on the whole "how twisted is agent smith" thing. Remember by this time Bane no longer exists, he's been over-written, for want of a better word, by Smith.

yeah, wonder what part he (Bane) will play in the next movie, probably quite a significant role judging by the last scene of reloaded

Dj_Jestar · 27 May 2003 at 18:01

I just had a bit of a brainstorm tbh

Forgive me if you have all thought this already

The part after he has 'recovered' from the matrix and their ship is blown up and then neo zaps the sentinels, infact from the very moment they 'wake up' could all be a hoax, the matrix's way of making the 'trouble makers' believe every thing is lost, when infact everything is lost for the machines... you with me??

Another story like this is in an episode of Red Dwarf, when they crash and awake in a machine similar to the matrix and they realise their 'real' lives are worthless and so want to commit suicide. Maybe not to this extreme, but a possibility??

iJedi · 27 May 2003 at 18:44

Originally posted by Hiroki
that is something that nagged at me in the first one actually.. when neo awoke to the real world for the first time, why did that machine just leave him?

hiroki

it didnt just leave him... it ejected him from his pod witch then flushed him into the swamp/river thing this would have drowned him as he had never used his muscles (sp?) b4... if it wasnt for the tracer program that morpheus (sp?) used to find him he would have died

Originally posted by jamesrw
Why does Bane(?) cut his hand at the start after Smith does that thing to him?

dont know exactly but i think its got something todo with agent smith mentioning in the 1st film that he hates being around humans (so im guessing he doenst like being in a human body)

NathanE · 27 May 2003 at 19:30

Originally posted by Desmo
Some of the CGI was diabolical. In the Neo v Smith x 1000 fight the swap from actors to CGI was pap. It looked more like an intro to a computer game when Neo is spinning around the pole.

Ironically you're spot on here. The matrix IS a computer simulation, the Wachowski's (or however you spell it) went to great lengths to ensure the scenes inside the matrix differed to the "real world" (which we know now is just another matrix). Ever wondered why the matrix scenes have a hint of green on them? The tweaks don't end there, as you said yourself.

NathanE · 27 May 2003 at 19:32

Originally posted by Anomaly
dont know exactly but i think its got something todo with agent smith mentioning in the 1st film that he hates being around humans (so im guessing he doenst like being in a human body)

Perhaps he is "branding" himself... 'this is 2nd body of Smith'... who would the first body be?

asim · 27 May 2003 at 19:33

It was obvious what was computer generated and what was real. yet i think it was purposely done to add the effect of a computer system and all that.

Because i mean if I could spot mistakes in the computer generated characters then something must be up.

I mean you could tell shape and form sometimes was off during the smith fight.

Defiant306 · 27 May 2003 at 19:46

Maybe the real world is so messed up that neither machine nor man can live their !
So the matrix is for all living things, the Zion/Real world matrix is the clash area for the humans that dont accept the main matrix.
Maybe the machines came to logic and saw that without the humans they wouldn't survive and grow, so they are repairing the real world !

Ah god knows !

I give up its hurting my head now and its making me want the 3rd film to come out now !!!!

Garp · 27 May 2003 at 20:14

Originally posted by asim
It was obvious what was computer generated and what was real. yet i think it was purposely done to add the effect of a computer system and all that.

Because i mean if I could spot mistakes in the computer generated characters then something must be up.

I mean you could tell shape and form sometimes was off during the smith fight.

The whole irony of this is, what you're suggesting is completely impossible, given the way the scenes were created.

They took Hugo Weaving, and Keanu Reeves, dressed as for the part. They had 5 ultra high resolution cameras capable of picking up the detail of individual pores, and took detailed shots of the pair of them with various expressions on their faces.
This information was then mapped onto accurate models of their bodies. These bodies were then used in the creation of the scene, using a real-world physics model. Interpolating the shots of the faces the computer was able to create an accurate model of their skull and their muscle structure, (based on info on the standard face muscles), so that transitions from expression to expression could be created accurately. The only way the scene could have been more real was for it to actually be real! They took everything in that scene and carried out the same process with it, taking ultra high resolution images and mapping it to a virtual model.
Everything in that entire fight scene, from the moment the third Agent Smith appeared, was computer rendered.
The same went for some of the bits of the highway scene, such as the car that the agent crushes as he leaps from car to car. That was a purely virtual car.

That 'burly man' fight scene, as the SFX company called it, couldn't possibly have had the actors moving their bodies in a way that is physically impossible. They had detailed information about the skeleton and muscle structure which they used to constrict the actions of the virtual characters. Okay, so the laws of physics could be broken purely for the matrix rule changing that they do such as speed and gravity, but even whilst this is going on normal physics is being applied to things like his long coat.

NathanE · 27 May 2003 at 20:47

Nothing wrong with the CGI, it was all top notch. As was the movie. *IMO*

azaniah · 27 May 2003 at 21:25

I thought that the scene where the car got crushed (which I thought was a real car), the Agent looked really awful. Highlighted by the fact they showed it in slo mo.

I also thought that some of the Agent Smith faces in the huge fight, looked deformed.

Other than that the CGI was darn good...

Matrix Reloaded - Discuss *[WARNING SPOILER]*

Matrix Reloaded - Discuss [WARNING SPOILER]