Matrix Reloaded - Discuss *[WARNING SPOILER]*
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Soldato
Originally posted by Baddass
A few more points:
4. If Neo gave Smith some extra powers in the original Matrix and it freed him from being an Agent then its possibel that Neo also has the ability to clone himself?? Would be cool to have some backup, although dont think they will do itAlso he gives Smith powers, Smith gives him powers (to control the machines outside the Matrix...liek Smith can)..that makes sense.
Smith was nothing more than a single program designed to perform a single task. That was to assist Neo to realising his skills.
When Defeated by Neo he contracted a virus from Neo shall we say. This virus was choice. He no longer had to follow the rules of his program Inside the matrix. It would also appear that he developed an ability to posses people not hardwired to the matrix and the ability to hack into their brain once they leave the matrix. Neo was far superior to him in every respect. It is doubtful that any of Agent Smiths Code was imprinted in Neo.
Neo certainly would not have gotten the ability to control machines outside the Matrix from Agent Smith as Agent Smith did not have this ability. He could provide information to the matrix so that it could instruct the robots (or provide information to the robots) but he himself had no control. He could have possibly divulged the information to Neo that there was a second matrix. If there was any skill Neo could have gotten it would have been to swap bodies.
Agent smith has evolved as a program.
Edit: But I dont think that Agent Smith Gave Neo anything
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Smith had no control over the machines outside the Matrix. Better clear this myth up. Just like the other Agents he was part of the machine race. He was a program created to maintain the safe running of the Matrix and deal with the Zionites.
As an Agent he had communication with the world/system outside the Matrix. The only control he had over the squiddies was to "Order the strike".
He did not have any other control. They are machines in their own right, just like he is/was.
Back in the first film, I got the impression that Agent Smith had been a machine before being inserted himself into the matrix. He made reference to how he hated "This place" how he felt he'd been "infected" by it, and how "repugnant" it all was. If he hadn't been elsewhere he wouldn't have had anything else to compare it to, surely? He couldn't have been infected because he would never have been what he could have seen as Pure.
I'm surprised, but Enter The Matrix was a good game to have completed before watching the film (finished it, both characters on Tuesday). It's little bits of information are useful.
The Oracle has been shut down by the moringivan. Ages ago a choice she made meant that her shut down codes were sold to him by two programs to save their baby (Neo? Smith?)
However the Oracle is still needed, so the program is re-created. This time with a different face. (how neatly that wraps up that problem)
It's like how if the program for managing the crows got shut down, it would be re-created because it is necessary. It kinda makes me think that the key-maker could have been shot earlier in the film and no problem, he'd have been re-created because he was essential to the completion of the cycle.
Niobe gets told in the game, by the oracle, that Neo is in a coma because his mind is seperated from his body. His mind is in the source... that just confuses me a little; but I'm wondering whether that means Neo has so much power of the Matrix he doesn't even need to connect to the matrix to be in part of it...
The next film does look awesome.. there is a one on one fight, Neo vs Smith set in the matrix, with loads of Smith clones holding the lines, just leaving the two to fight. IT does appear that they both are of equal power. That doesn't tie in particularly well with an anti-christ / christ battle. From a christian perspective God is stronger than the Devil. I've seen it illustrated as being like Melon vs Grape. No matter what the grape does, eventually the melon will just squash it
Anyway.. I thought the film was awesome. The Special FX are amazing, it's a whole new level. The change between the real filming of Neo and Smith in the courtyard to the multi-agent fight sequence is so smooth, and the graphics are so real, I didn't spot the change. The fight sequence then done is absolutely awesome, and really showed the technology off well too!
Morpheous was great. I watched the original on Tuesday, before seeing it last night; and IMO Morpheous hasn't changed at all. Even back then he was this guy obsessed with the Oracle... obsessed about how The One would save them.
Here's looking forward to the next film and the solving of the conundrums.
As an Agent he had communication with the world/system outside the Matrix. The only control he had over the squiddies was to "Order the strike".
He did not have any other control. They are machines in their own right, just like he is/was.
Back in the first film, I got the impression that Agent Smith had been a machine before being inserted himself into the matrix. He made reference to how he hated "This place" how he felt he'd been "infected" by it, and how "repugnant" it all was. If he hadn't been elsewhere he wouldn't have had anything else to compare it to, surely? He couldn't have been infected because he would never have been what he could have seen as Pure.
I'm surprised, but Enter The Matrix was a good game to have completed before watching the film (finished it, both characters on Tuesday). It's little bits of information are useful.
The Oracle has been shut down by the moringivan. Ages ago a choice she made meant that her shut down codes were sold to him by two programs to save their baby (Neo? Smith?)
However the Oracle is still needed, so the program is re-created. This time with a different face. (how neatly that wraps up that problem)
It's like how if the program for managing the crows got shut down, it would be re-created because it is necessary. It kinda makes me think that the key-maker could have been shot earlier in the film and no problem, he'd have been re-created because he was essential to the completion of the cycle.
Niobe gets told in the game, by the oracle, that Neo is in a coma because his mind is seperated from his body. His mind is in the source... that just confuses me a little; but I'm wondering whether that means Neo has so much power of the Matrix he doesn't even need to connect to the matrix to be in part of it...
The next film does look awesome.. there is a one on one fight, Neo vs Smith set in the matrix, with loads of Smith clones holding the lines, just leaving the two to fight. IT does appear that they both are of equal power. That doesn't tie in particularly well with an anti-christ / christ battle. From a christian perspective God is stronger than the Devil. I've seen it illustrated as being like Melon vs Grape. No matter what the grape does, eventually the melon will just squash it
Anyway.. I thought the film was awesome. The Special FX are amazing, it's a whole new level. The change between the real filming of Neo and Smith in the courtyard to the multi-agent fight sequence is so smooth, and the graphics are so real, I didn't spot the change. The fight sequence then done is absolutely awesome, and really showed the technology off well too!
Morpheous was great. I watched the original on Tuesday, before seeing it last night; and IMO Morpheous hasn't changed at all. Even back then he was this guy obsessed with the Oracle... obsessed about how The One would save them.
Here's looking forward to the next film and the solving of the conundrums.
Definately part of the matrix.
Wouldn't you get suspicious if you were a whole population, trying to reproduce and nothing happened... they had to have some way of doing it.
It would be simulated exactly the same way as the life cylce is simulated in the main Matrix.
Associate
Did they destroy Zion or did they just destroy all the ships that where sent out? If so are we waiting to see if Zion will be destroyed?
not even all the ships mate they destroyed the ones that took part in what would have been a successful ambush if someone hadnyt set off the EMP early.
If this turns out to be a matrix in a matrix the film will be ruined for me, therefore i will not believe that until i see it and when i do my entire faith in the film will disintegrate swiftly.
For that reason alone i will not believe that theory.
Soldato
Denial is the first step along the path to acceptance.
There is so much evidence to support this theory... Even the game is giving reference to a second matrix. If Neo is still connected (ie a second matrix) then he would be able to be in the source.
Associate
like i said earlier zion cant be real because the spuddies wouldn't have to re tunnel to the core if they had done it 5 times previously they would just float straight done, cant see the earth filling itself back in woth iron ore etc in between destructions of zion? must be an outer loop?
how come the squiddies can just follow the same routes to Zion that the ships do?? they chase them down the old service ducts and stuff in the first film and so surely they can save themselves a lot of digging and follow the same route Morpheus and all the other ships take and then jsut drill thru teh door at the end? 
maybe but then it would be crap and what would the point be in continuing the fight for neo and all of those that believed they are in the real world ?
if this is confirmed that it is a second matricx then that would lead to a huge and i mean catastrophic failure in those still alive within zion. They would have lost the one human emotin which is vital for there survival which is hope.
Originally posted by Baddass
how come the squiddies can just follow the same routes to Zion that the ships do?? they chase them down the old service ducts and stuff in the first film and so surely they can save themselves a lot of digging and follow the same route Morpheus and all the other ships take and then jsut drill thru teh door at the end?
they cant break the access codes to get into the zion maninframe.
and in answer to chopper / america is a big place
actually forget that - the world no one ever said that those within the matrix have to be solely from america.
Soldato
Originally posted by memphisto
they cant break the access codes to get into the zion maninframe.
and in answer to chopper / america is a big place
actually forget that - the world no one ever said that those within the matrix have to be solely from america.
They created Zion I think they already know the codes.
Its all part of the illusion
Does no one else think that the appearance of another Hover, just as the Squiddies are stopped "by Neo" is a little coincidental?
Maybe (by some huge stretch of the imagination), the Hover let rip an EMP that disabled them.
Now for the speculation.
The world of Zion is another Matrix construct, used to house those that wouldn't fit in to the original Matrix (the whole need to accept their enslavement, even at the unconcious level).
Neo did indeed stop the Squiddies on his own, but the NewMatrix brought the Hover in to make it look as though it wasn't Neo.
Agent Smith has hacked the mind of the Zionite (whatever his name was) in a 13th Floor type of way, and is either looking to escape (cf Matrix 1) or is part of a larger plot.
Trinity has a great looking derriere in PVC. Mmmmmmm . . .
Maybe (by some huge stretch of the imagination), the Hover let rip an EMP that disabled them.
Now for the speculation.
The world of Zion is another Matrix construct, used to house those that wouldn't fit in to the original Matrix (the whole need to accept their enslavement, even at the unconcious level).
Neo did indeed stop the Squiddies on his own, but the NewMatrix brought the Hover in to make it look as though it wasn't Neo.
Agent Smith has hacked the mind of the Zionite (whatever his name was) in a 13th Floor type of way, and is either looking to escape (cf Matrix 1) or is part of a larger plot.
Trinity has a great looking derriere in PVC. Mmmmmmm . . .
actually good point about the hover craft and EMP.......it certainly looked like the machines were disabled by and EMP (same blue flash thing and then they just fall over) perhaps (work with me here!!) they EMP'd the squiddies and it nailed Neo too as he's machine too ??? possibly a machine built in to the matrix or somehting similar, thats why he's now in a coma?
) they EMP'd the squiddies and it nailed Neo too as he's machine too ??? possibly a machine built in to the matrix or somehting similar, thats why he's now in a coma?- Status