McLaren Honda
- Thread starter andicole0
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Soldato
One hopes that there would also be performance clauses too...
Why are Honda finding this so difficult? In the consumer motoring world their cars are quite well known for being fairly up to date with things and reliable so you would think they would be able to manage this if Merc,Ferrari and Renault can.
Soldato
These engines have almost no relevance to road car ones though. No-one builds a small (sub 2 litre) capacity 90° V6 for a road car because it would be rubbish - 60° would work, 120° even better though packaging becomes an issue. No-one builds road cars with MGU-Hs because they would be too complex and the amount of energy you'd get back in ordinary driving would hardly be worth it.
Honda have clearly underestimated the scale of the challenge building engines to this utterly stupid formula. They have no real prior experience to fall back on, as these engines are nothing like those from the previous turbo era in F1. Everyone else had been designing engines for this era long before Honda decided to get involved as well.
Lack of experience + arrogance + starting late = Honda in F1 right now.
I know, but fundamentally it is just science and engineering so it is surprising that their engineers and staff cannot get it right, even after all this time. I can understand initial issues, but they are in their third year now! Perhaps they need to open their wallets and poach some engineers from other teams.
Soldato
That's part of the problem - they have stubbornly refused to recruit and insisted on relying on their own people.
Honda need to take a look at Renault too. They are still struggling even though they've had more time with the formula and loads more data from other cars. Trying to close the gap on their own in a shorter amount of time and with less car data just hasn't worked. Especially when you are chasing a moving target. It's no good matching Mercedes and Ferrari, you need to design something better than them! I just can't see it happening in their current state.
At least Renault are fairly competitive, with teams with Renault engines so far 3rd, 5th and 7th in the constructors this year and a team coming second in the constructors last year. Honda just continue to be nowhere, even though presumably the chassis is good.
Honda seem to have gone backwards this year, especially in the reliability stakes. To not have a single point so far is awful.
Soldato
So... Alonso leaves McHonda.
I guess that means Jenson will be the 2018 WDC !!
I guess that means Jenson will be the 2018 WDC !!
Can you imagine it? Honda secretly working on a radical 2018 engine design to finally solve their problems in a hit/bust manoeuvre and it pays off and is the best engine ever.
//Alonso self combusts.
Like the time he left Ferrari and Ferrari got better under Vettel/new management
And potentially Sauber?
Andi.
Soldato
Sauber are pretty much at the back of the grid anyway, and have no big money sponsors. What's the harm in getting Honda to chip in a few tens of millions.
Sauber have nothing to lose. They're pretty much the slowest at the moment and have an engine that, while reliable, is down on power and won't receive any upgrades at all. The Honda is cheaper and will be developed which also means they can develop the car more with the money they're saving. For them it's win/win. There's no real disadvantage and if Honda actually do come good then they're benefitting massively.
But will Honda want to carry on without a 'big' name team? Especially after failing with a renowned engineering company.
Andi.
Andi.
Man of Honour
I can see McLaren switching to Mercedes as a done deal now and it may also keep Alonso in the team. If they stick with Honda, which is beyond comprehension at this point, Alonso will walk and McLaren will be forever stuck at the back of the grid along with Sauber from next year who will probably go bust. Honda should just call it a day and leave. For whatever reason have shown that they are clearly incapable of building a reliable, competitive engine. This years engine is even worse than last years engine and there are no signs of any improvement coming soon.
The much vaunted upgrade that was supposed to come last weekend is now apparently due in Austria.
Associate
100% expect McLaren to have Merc engines for the next year or two - could be wrong merely speculation
Man of Honour
Would be a sad end to the story for them to go back with their tail between their legs being a customer of mercedes after their grand plans with Honda.