So say you have a graphically stunning game, then plentiful but comparatively pants looking physics effects... you don't think that will ruin the immersion somewhat?
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Merry Xmas Pottsey
- Thread starter helmutcheese
- Start date
So say you have a graphically stunning game, then plentiful but comparatively pants looking physics effects... you don't think that will ruin the immersion somewhat?
lol
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 173
What do you mean by pants looking physics effects?
When talking about physics effects I am talking about how objects move and interact with each other not how they are graphically represented on screen. The physics calculations carried out by the CPU and PPU have nothing to do with how the final objects look in a graphical sense when displayed on screen. What the physics calculations do is tell the graphics card where the objects should be drawn at a particular point in time.
Take the buildings in Crysis for example. When these break the physics system calculates when the building should break and where the different parts it is made up from move afterwards based on the physical forces that have been applied. IT may also set off a few particle systems to represent dust and maybe an explosion however,the fancy textures and lighting models that are used to render the separate parts of the building and the particle systems are nothing to do with the physics system. This is all handled by the graphics engine.
Associate
So the PPU cant "break" an object? It just tells the CPU where the particles should be? It would be great if it could accually break objects up.
Soldato
If Crysis had fully realised water in it then i think it would look far better - namely waves lapping on to the shore and waterfalls cascading down the rocks.
That sort of thing would be fantastic.
That sort of thing would be fantastic.
“you can argue semantics all you like but its the final effect that matters at the end of the day in which case warmonger is nothing special”
You do like dogging questions don’t you. I keep asking for evidence and you never post any. I am still waiting to hear how the PPU is a negligible diffrance UT3. You keep saying warmonger is nothing special and older game do the same physics. If the physics are nothing special then show me older games as good.
Warmonger is an online only game. Online only games are not about the best graphics possible they always have worse graphics then single player games. This is about physics not graphics. And Warmongesr physics are something special. Online only games will never have better graphics then a single player game of the same generation.
“and would be something beyong what current Havok based titles can do,”
It is beyond what Havok does. There isn’t a single Havok game I am aware of that does what warmonger does physics wise.
“real time physics for the surrounding foliage filled land, there is NO CPU slowdown whilst all this is happening, what other "PhysX" powered game does this? No other game does this, period”
No other games! PPU games have been doing that for years I even posted a video earlyon in this thread from a 2 year old game. I have been enjoying foliage that’s effected by gunfire, tress that can be shot down, plants where each large leaf moves where you touch it for years now.
What I find funny is years back in the PPU threads people said it’s pointless, doesn’t affect game play, who cares about this type of phsyics. Blah blah. Now people have seen it everyone is yeah its good, needed physics that are fun.
”Things like that make a big difference to actual gameplay, and you don't need a PPU for it.”
You do need a PPU if you want to increase the scale. Yes the physics are good in Crysis but they are all on a small scale. Imagine the same physics you love but instead of one Jeep it’s a large fleet of jeeps. Instead of a 5 metre blast wave you now have a 1 mile blast wave. Instead of 1 tree faling down you have a large section of trees falling down. All things current CPU's cannot do but a good PPU could.
“When enemies are looking for you in a forest in Crysis, you can knock or shoot down trees to use as cover, or to block their path and actually make them go where you want to, or you can even pick up the pieces of tree and chuck them at the enemies.”
Wow it took the CPU, 2 years ish to catch up with old PPU games.
“When you shoot a tree down it's computing the physics for that tree falling down as well as all the branches on it whilst maintaining real time physics for the surrounding foliage filled land, there is NO CPU slowdown”
Yes when you shoot down a tree there is no slow down. Emphasis on the word “a”. Once you shoot down lots of trees in one go there is massive physic slow down. Thats when you need a PPU.
“However this has already been done on the link oyu posted wasnt it? ”
No it wasn’t unless I was blind and missed it. The problem I have with fraps is I cannot follow the same path each time, I cannot control the bots. I cannot put the same stress physics wise on the CPU and PPU due to things out of controle. I need to find a way to record a timedemo then becnhmark the demo with and without the PPU.
“I expected textured bricks,”
The bricks are textured. Those are old run down buildings in a war zone. The bricks where meant to be dark. There are lighter colour bricks on the none warszone areas of the map. Some of the under ground bricks are more like silver tiles.
“If Crysis had fully realised water in it then i think it would look far better - namely waves lapping on to the shore and waterfalls cascading down the rocks.”
That’s the type of thing you need a PPU for. Its just to stressfull for CPU’s. Liquids just dont work on current CPU's.
You do like dogging questions don’t you. I keep asking for evidence and you never post any. I am still waiting to hear how the PPU is a negligible diffrance UT3. You keep saying warmonger is nothing special and older game do the same physics. If the physics are nothing special then show me older games as good.
Warmonger is an online only game. Online only games are not about the best graphics possible they always have worse graphics then single player games. This is about physics not graphics. And Warmongesr physics are something special. Online only games will never have better graphics then a single player game of the same generation.
“and would be something beyong what current Havok based titles can do,”
It is beyond what Havok does. There isn’t a single Havok game I am aware of that does what warmonger does physics wise.
“real time physics for the surrounding foliage filled land, there is NO CPU slowdown whilst all this is happening, what other "PhysX" powered game does this? No other game does this, period”
No other games! PPU games have been doing that for years I even posted a video earlyon in this thread from a 2 year old game. I have been enjoying foliage that’s effected by gunfire, tress that can be shot down, plants where each large leaf moves where you touch it for years now.
What I find funny is years back in the PPU threads people said it’s pointless, doesn’t affect game play, who cares about this type of phsyics. Blah blah. Now people have seen it everyone is yeah its good, needed physics that are fun.
”Things like that make a big difference to actual gameplay, and you don't need a PPU for it.”
You do need a PPU if you want to increase the scale. Yes the physics are good in Crysis but they are all on a small scale. Imagine the same physics you love but instead of one Jeep it’s a large fleet of jeeps. Instead of a 5 metre blast wave you now have a 1 mile blast wave. Instead of 1 tree faling down you have a large section of trees falling down. All things current CPU's cannot do but a good PPU could.
“When enemies are looking for you in a forest in Crysis, you can knock or shoot down trees to use as cover, or to block their path and actually make them go where you want to, or you can even pick up the pieces of tree and chuck them at the enemies.”
Wow it took the CPU, 2 years ish to catch up with old PPU games.
“When you shoot a tree down it's computing the physics for that tree falling down as well as all the branches on it whilst maintaining real time physics for the surrounding foliage filled land, there is NO CPU slowdown”
Yes when you shoot down a tree there is no slow down. Emphasis on the word “a”. Once you shoot down lots of trees in one go there is massive physic slow down. Thats when you need a PPU.
“However this has already been done on the link oyu posted wasnt it? ”
No it wasn’t unless I was blind and missed it. The problem I have with fraps is I cannot follow the same path each time, I cannot control the bots. I cannot put the same stress physics wise on the CPU and PPU due to things out of controle. I need to find a way to record a timedemo then becnhmark the demo with and without the PPU.
“I expected textured bricks,”
The bricks are textured. Those are old run down buildings in a war zone. The bricks where meant to be dark. There are lighter colour bricks on the none warszone areas of the map. Some of the under ground bricks are more like silver tiles.
“If Crysis had fully realised water in it then i think it would look far better - namely waves lapping on to the shore and waterfalls cascading down the rocks.”
That’s the type of thing you need a PPU for. Its just to stressfull for CPU’s. Liquids just dont work on current CPU's.
Caporegime
Penryns will do it, crysis only uses one core atm well with my CPU which is a dual core it only uses around 50% of the CPU, let water use 75% of a quad core CPU.
Can you please expand on that, and provide evidence where possible that a quad core when fully utilised could not do this.
Soldato
Am i the only one here in correctly thinking that if everything can be doubled that surely the MAXIMUM increase is 100%?
...or am i just being a ****?
PS: I'm all for PPU's having obtained one recently
That's what I am saying, you don't need to increase the scale. The physics effects in Crysis are fine, and what you're talking about isn't feasable anyway. If you had actually played Crysis, you would know that the idea of taking on a "fleet of jeeps" is the most ridiculous idea that you have ever come up with.
What games are you talking about, and are they quality titles or tech demos?
There is no slowdown in Crysis when you mow down half a forest, had you played it you would know.
I know this one's not a reply to me but what the hell: -
That's yet another effect that looks nice but does nothing to the gameplay, which is why it's perfect for a PPU.
“Am i the only one here in correctly thinking that if everything can be doubled that surely the MAXIMUM increase is 100%?
...or am i just being a ****?”
That’s correct I was doing % in a confusing way and apologised a few pages ago. I wrote double but put 50%.
“That's what I am saying, you don't need to increase the scale. The physics effects in Crysis are fine,”
People where saying the physics where fine how they where until Cryusis pushed them forward. People Say the current physics are fine and will do until they see the next game that push’s physics forward. There is so much more that could be done that’s better then what we have. If you increase the scale you can do lots of good stuff that’s not doable now.
”and what you're talking about isn't feasable anyway. If you had actually played Crysis, you would know that the idea of taking on a "fleet of jeeps" is the most ridiculous idea that you have ever come up with.”
Of course it’s feasible. How about you’re on one part of the map and a nuke goes off in the distance. You investigate and see the destruction. Or your could get in the jeep and have other jeeps in the distance fighting. You would be high up on a cliff and look down as boulders crash onto a convey of jeeps. There are tons of things you could do with we had more physics power
“What games are you talking about, and are they quality titles or tech demos”
Titles not demos as for quality some people say yes some say no. You have GRAW 2 and the BOS line of games for a start.
“There is no slowdown in Crysis when you mow down half a forest, had you played it you would know.”
A video was posted of Crysis with massive slow down while half the forest was knocked down. Every video I have seen, everyone who has tried it says there is slow down apart from you. Prove it. If there is no slow down show me.
I am well aware you can mow down 1 tree after another. It’s hitting lots at the same time Crysis cannot handle.
“That's yet another effect that looks nice but does nothing to the gameplay, which is why it's perfect for a PPU.”
Liquids could have a massive impact in gameplay. In fact they do in PPU games now. How can you say it has no impact on gameplay.
...or am i just being a ****?”
That’s correct I was doing % in a confusing way and apologised a few pages ago. I wrote double but put 50%.
“That's what I am saying, you don't need to increase the scale. The physics effects in Crysis are fine,”
People where saying the physics where fine how they where until Cryusis pushed them forward. People Say the current physics are fine and will do until they see the next game that push’s physics forward. There is so much more that could be done that’s better then what we have. If you increase the scale you can do lots of good stuff that’s not doable now.
”and what you're talking about isn't feasable anyway. If you had actually played Crysis, you would know that the idea of taking on a "fleet of jeeps" is the most ridiculous idea that you have ever come up with.”
Of course it’s feasible. How about you’re on one part of the map and a nuke goes off in the distance. You investigate and see the destruction. Or your could get in the jeep and have other jeeps in the distance fighting. You would be high up on a cliff and look down as boulders crash onto a convey of jeeps. There are tons of things you could do with we had more physics power
“What games are you talking about, and are they quality titles or tech demos”
Titles not demos as for quality some people say yes some say no. You have GRAW 2 and the BOS line of games for a start.
“There is no slowdown in Crysis when you mow down half a forest, had you played it you would know.”
A video was posted of Crysis with massive slow down while half the forest was knocked down. Every video I have seen, everyone who has tried it says there is slow down apart from you. Prove it. If there is no slow down show me.
I am well aware you can mow down 1 tree after another. It’s hitting lots at the same time Crysis cannot handle.
“That's yet another effect that looks nice but does nothing to the gameplay, which is why it's perfect for a PPU.”
Liquids could have a massive impact in gameplay. In fact they do in PPU games now. How can you say it has no impact on gameplay.
I'm pretty sure that has a lot more to do with how much time and effort is required during development than what the hardware is capable of. Crysis pushes the boundaries enough overall, Crytek obviously poured their blood, sweat and tears into it, and unless you wanted the game to be delayed for years and lose its competitive timing then I don't think they could've improved it.
I meant feasable in a gameplay sense. A single jeep is hard to take on unless you're playing on easy, a "fleet" of jeeps would be suicide. A PPU would be of no use here unless that part of the game involved causing a rockslide onto a fleet of jeeps, and my bet is on the CPU being capable of that too.
GRAW 2 is not two years old, not to mention it's crap, and I don't know if the Bet On Soldier games have destructible forests in but the games themselves are hardly must-have titles.
You claim that Crysis' "mowing down forests" feature has been done on PPU for two years, show me the titles.
I'll say it again, play the damn game instead of pulling performance figures out of thin-air.
Even the demo has trees in it, go see for yourself.
The way you're talking about Crysis and performance is absolutely absurd. How would you feel if, even though I've not played the majority of PPU-supported games, I just kept saying "they run like crap, they run like crap, the PPU doesn't help because it still runs like crap"?
PPU-accelerated water on the beach would serve no purpose in Crysis. I can see it being useful in some games, but I can also see the CPU doing it too.
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You claim that Crysis' "mowing down forests" feature has been done on PPU for two years, show me the titles.”
I posted a video from BOS earlier on in the thread with all the leaves, trees, wind and other effects. Although the video wasn’t from a forest section of the game, there are forests in the game with the same effects. My point was all the same effects where done ages ago in PPU games.
I agree in Crysis beach water wouldn’t serve much purpose. But watch about a hanger with fuel like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoH3JQJGlA
? A fire fight in a room full of fuel tanks like that could be interesting where you have to watch stray bullet fire. You could have a room filling up with water and someone stuck inside, shoot the glass to free the person only tons of waters flows though the broken glass effecting the room your in.
“A single jeep is hard to take on unless you're playing on easy, a "fleet" of jeeps would be suicide.”
Off the top of my head. Some jeeps are going though a canyon. You have to place explosives before the jeeps arrive then when enough jeeps are though the canyon you trigger the explosive setting off an avalanche with 1000’s of boldiers falling onto the jeep convey, hitting tons of jeeps.
I am sure if we think about it we could come up with lots of cool stuff that we cannot do currently due to lack of physic power. Imagine a PPU x10 more powerful then Ageia PPU built into everyone’s CPU or motherboard. We could do lots of great stuff.
I posted a video from BOS earlier on in the thread with all the leaves, trees, wind and other effects. Although the video wasn’t from a forest section of the game, there are forests in the game with the same effects. My point was all the same effects where done ages ago in PPU games.
I agree in Crysis beach water wouldn’t serve much purpose. But watch about a hanger with fuel like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoH3JQJGlA
? A fire fight in a room full of fuel tanks like that could be interesting where you have to watch stray bullet fire. You could have a room filling up with water and someone stuck inside, shoot the glass to free the person only tons of waters flows though the broken glass effecting the room your in.
“A single jeep is hard to take on unless you're playing on easy, a "fleet" of jeeps would be suicide.”
Off the top of my head. Some jeeps are going though a canyon. You have to place explosives before the jeeps arrive then when enough jeeps are though the canyon you trigger the explosive setting off an avalanche with 1000’s of boldiers falling onto the jeep convey, hitting tons of jeeps.
I am sure if we think about it we could come up with lots of cool stuff that we cannot do currently due to lack of physic power. Imagine a PPU x10 more powerful then Ageia PPU built into everyone’s CPU or motherboard. We could do lots of great stuff.
Associate
6,000,000 milion sphere to sphere collisions per sec doesnt seem THAT impressive to me.
Am I the only one who thinks that looks less like fluid and more like someone just shot at a gothic McDonald's ball pit?
Am I the only one who thinks that looks less like fluid and more like someone just shot at a gothic McDonald's ball pit?
It didn't look realistic put it that way.
“I'll say it again, play the damn game instead of pulling performance figures out of thin-air.”
I am not pulling performance figures out of thin-air. It was backed up with a video showing the bad performance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxOSOJSmess&feature=related
Half the tress fall over and the FPS plumit from the physics and the CPU failing to handle it all.
You’re the one who’s pulling performance figures out of thin-air number and not backing it up. Where is your evidence?
“Am I the only one who thinks that looks less like fluid and more like someone just shot at a gothic McDonald's ball pit? ”
I was using it as an example of the type of effect you can do with a really powerful PPU but not a CPU. My post was about PPU x10 more powerful then Ageia and the things we could do if we all had a PPU. Clearly you would want the effect to look even better then that.
I am not pulling performance figures out of thin-air. It was backed up with a video showing the bad performance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxOSOJSmess&feature=related
Half the tress fall over and the FPS plumit from the physics and the CPU failing to handle it all.
You’re the one who’s pulling performance figures out of thin-air number and not backing it up. Where is your evidence?
“Am I the only one who thinks that looks less like fluid and more like someone just shot at a gothic McDonald's ball pit? ”
I was using it as an example of the type of effect you can do with a really powerful PPU but not a CPU. My post was about PPU x10 more powerful then Ageia and the things we could do if we all had a PPU. Clearly you would want the effect to look even better then that.
That ran very well actually considering it was recorded by some random with FRAPS or similar which causes a performance hit anyway.
Pottsey, I've told you a few times now. I don't know how to use Sandbox2 but you only have to download the demo to prove me wrong. The Sandbox2 editor is included with it.
I thought it looked like complete crap to be honest. So are you saying we need PPUs 10x more powerful than the ones we have now to make physics effects that actually look decent? Doesn't that make PPUs pointless for now?Pottsey said: