#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

[Angilion]

[..]

I think when it comes to male-female relations and the attack on masculinity, either directly or indirectly, many men I've noticed aren't self aware they are men and how they could be perceived.

It's like the example of a man crossing over the road if a woman on her own is walking towards him on the same path. There is a noticeable amount of men who aren't self aware.

When prejudice is deeply engrained enough within a society for it to be normal it becomes invisible. One way to make it stand out is to imagine exactly the same thing but with a different target.

So, for example, try re-reading what you wrote with "black person" and "white person" instead of "man" and "woman". Exactly the same thing but with different targeting. Same actions. Same words. Same thoughts. Same feelings.

And it does fit. There have been societies in which some "white" people would be uncomfortable if they saw a "black" person walking towards them on the same path. Many anti-"black" and anti-male stereotypes are the same stereotypes. And there have been people who made the same arguments you're making. And probably saw themselves as moderates since they weren't advocating complete segregation. Just that lower status group identities should always give way to higher status group identities as a result of being aware of how they could be perceived.

 

[BowdonUK]

When prejudice is deeply engrained enough within a society for it to be normal it becomes invisible. One way to make it stand out is to imagine exactly the same thing but with a different target.

So, for example, try re-reading what you wrote with "black person" and "white person" instead of "man" and "woman". Exactly the same thing but with different targeting. Same actions. Same words. Same thoughts. Same feelings.

And it does fit. There have been societies in which some "white" people would be uncomfortable if they saw a "black" person walking towards them on the same path. Many anti-"black" and anti-male stereotypes are the same stereotypes. And there have been people who made the same arguments you're making. And probably saw themselves as moderates since they weren't advocating complete segregation. Just that lower status group identities should always give way to higher status group identities as a result of being aware of how they could be perceived.

I can agree with your point.

I think it comes down to stereotypes and are they justified or not.

Men are generally more violent to strangers than women. But the debate becomes skewed in the media because it only talks about women being in the victims when in reality other men are usually the victim of male violence.

So a distorted view then becomes the "truth" in the minds of women, even though it could be argued on average women are safer than men from physical violence from a stranger.

 

[Angilion]

I can agree with your point.

I think it comes down to stereotypes and are they justified or not.

Men are generally more violent to strangers than women. But the debate becomes skewed in the media because it only talks about women being in the victims when in reality other men are usually the victim of male violence.

So a distorted view then becomes the "truth" in the minds of women, even though it could be argued on average women are safer than men from physical violence from a stranger.

I agree with that, though I don't know if we're in agreement about whether or not stereotypes are (or ever can be) justified.

In some societies what you describe also applies to "black" people and "white" people. The USA, for example. Or so the crime figures from there indicate.

 

[Bluecube]

2. He's found not guilty, and the twitter mob/liberals go mental and start protesting for the sake of protesting. They don't want equality, they want power.

Does anyone use Twitter these days? Just because some nutjob says something on Twitter doesn’t mean to say it means anything or even that anyone will read it. We need to learn to ignore social media cause it seems to reflect an extremely narrow range of views

 

[bigmike20vt]

Of course, it could happen. So could getting hit by a bus when I leave my home... I dont fear leaving my house though.

indeed I would say the chances of being run over whilst crossing the road because you are worried about a woman falsely accusing you of assault because you were on "her" side of the road IS more likely to be honest.
I have deliberately slowed down when I was at uni walking home through one of the dodgy areas (that we were told not to walk down at night) if I felt I could have intimidated someone in front of me.

I don't think I have crossed the road due to people walking towards me..... but if I some how knew I was worrying someone I would not be against it so long as it was safe to do so.

i think using the black/white thing instead of man/woman is a very interesting point.
I suspect if you were to start a thread in the forums where people are really pushing the men aggressive / be respectful of women narrative and posted the same thing about black and white, those very same people would call you a racist. Hypocrisy? perhaps, I certainly could not objectively argue why 1 stereotype is ok but another isn't.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

It'll go one of two ways.

1. He's found guilty, setting a dangerous precedent for every man/boy in the west, who even looks at a women/girl in a way she deems not right.
2. He's found not guilty, and the twitter mob/liberals go mental and start protesting for the sake of protesting. They don't want equality, they want power.

Being found guilty of sexual assault, based on Spanish law, is setting a dangerous precedent? No wonder a lot of people think men are still the problem.

 

[Richie]

Being found guilty of sexual assault, based on Spanish law, is setting a dangerous precedent? No wonder a lot of people think men are still the problem.

That's not what he said. It's pretty clear that @MadMossy doesn't equate the incident as sexual assault, given the initial reaction from the player including on the bus which changed once the social media warriors lost their minds.

You are putting words in @MadMossys mouth.

 

[MadMossy]

It's common knowledge that women like to change their minds every 5 seconds but when it comes to this sort of stuff it can be devastating for no reason at all.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

You're embarrassing yourself now again.

 

[Richie]

You're embarrassing yourself now again.

Without knowing his personal circumstances/story, your comment could be a little off.... Would you say the same to this chap for instance? - Liam Allan

Would it be reasonable to think that Liam Allen could have a distrust of women and the police after reading what happened? Perhaps @MadMossy has went through a traumatic divorce where the ex-wife lied left, right and centre leaving him with an understandable suspicion of women and their motives whereas you have a great happy supportive marriage so think differently.

People's views, including views that others may think are irrational, are borne from their experiences and to dismiss them without understanding why they think that can be silly.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Even if you've been through a traumatic break-up, etc. you shouldn't make blanket statements about an entire gender.

A well-developed person should be able to distinguish the behaviour of an individual from that of a whole group of people, just because they have one thing in common.

It's certainly not common knowledge that all women change their minds every 5 seconds, it's a ridiculous statement (especially when talking about issues like sexual assault and rape) and sexist however you want to spin it.

It reads like incel/red pill/tate behaviour, where because one thing happened with one woman, they're all the same now and you should treat them as such.

 

[Richie]

Even if you've been through a traumatic break-up, etc. you shouldn't make blanket statements about an entire gender.

A well-developed person should be able to distinguish the behaviour of an individual from that of a whole group of people, just because they have one thing in common.

It's certainly not common knowledge that all women change their minds every 5 seconds, it's a ridiculous statement (especially when talking about issues like sexual assault and rape) and sexist however you want to spin it.

It reads like incel/red pill/tate behaviour, where because one thing happened with one woman, they're all the same now and you should treat them as such.

Oh, I agree but I try and understand WHY someone thinks a certain way or has a certain opinion on things so I can understand their POV better even if I dont agree with it. A "well developed person", as you say, should be able to cope with that and then rebut said POV better than just a "you're just embarrassing yourself" throwaway comment (the second from the same poster in the last couple of days in this thread).

Not aimed at you but - Now comes the argument - "well the level of comment that I was replying to justified a similar level of response"

A well-developed person should be able to distinguish the behaviour of an individual from that of a whole group of people, just because they have one thing in common.

But people don't.... Lot's of people have strong opinions of entire populations of a country or groups of people just because of the actions of a small minority of said population - certain middle eastern countries and their reputation for terrorism, the English and their drunken lout behaviour when abroad; as 2 examples of irrational views held by people.

 

[MadMossy]

Even if you've been through a traumatic break-up, etc. you shouldn't make blanket statements about an entire gender.

A well-developed person should be able to distinguish the behaviour of an individual from that of a whole group of people, just because they have one thing in common.

It's certainly not common knowledge that all women change their minds every 5 seconds, it's a ridiculous statement (especially when talking about issues like sexual assault and rape) and sexist however you want to spin it.

It reads like incel/red pill/tate behaviour, where because one thing happened with one woman, they're all the same now and you should treat them as such.

Some trauma remains no matter how much you try change.

A well developed person would also be able to see when someone is making a clearly exagerated statement as no one actually thinks someone changes their mind that much.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Some trauma remains no matter how much you try change.

A well developed person would also be able to see when someone is making a clearly exagerated statement as no one actually thinks someone changes their mind that much.

The overall message didn't seem clearly exaggerated from that post and your previous ones. I was aware that you didn't mean literally every 5 seconds, that wasn't the important part, it was the sweeping generalisation about all women.

Words and how they're written are important, so if you didn't mean that, you could have easily written it differently.