#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

[arknor]

And yet not a murmur of criminal action surrounding Justin Bieber's multiple incidents....

none of them are officials representing anything but themselves ? so yea they are held to different standards.
bieber looks uncomfortable in the second photo, I bet he made a fuss about it after.

Bet he got Puff daddy flashbacks #notlikeus

 

[katie279]

I don't think it's normal to be kissing people in celebration on the lips.

Definitely not...

TOP 10 most Memorable Kisses in Football

⚽️TOP 10 most Memorable Kisses in Football Thanks for Watching! Don`t forget to like and share the video! Subscribe now!⚽️If you want to publish your video...

youtu.be

Viewer discretion advised - plenty of assaults....

 

[GGizmo]

Definitely not...

TOP 10 most Memorable Kisses in Football

⚽️TOP 10 most Memorable Kisses in Football Thanks for Watching! Don`t forget to like and share the video! Subscribe now!⚽️If you want to publish your video...

youtu.be

Viewer discretion advised - plenty of assaults....

I need a puke bucket. A hearty handshake is good enough!

On a serious note most of these weren't on the lips, and the few that were was between teammates. The female interviewer looked uncomfortable with the kiss from the footballer she was interviewing.

I think when it comes to male-female relations and the attack on masculinity, either directly or indirectly, many men I've noticed aren't self aware they are men and how they could be perceived.

It's like the example of a man crossing over the road if a woman on her own is walking towards him on the same path. There is a noticeable amount of men who aren't self aware.

 

[katie279]

I need a puke bucket. A hearty handshake is good enough!

Totally agree, I think it's silly, but it's not assault, nor is it criminal. It's stupid and that's all!

On a serious note most of these weren't on the lips, and the few that were was between teammates. The female interviewer looked uncomfortable with the kiss from the footballer she was interviewing.

Absolutely - they can be silly, stupid, uncomfortable, unwelcome, revolting and much more, this is humanity!

I think when it comes to male-female relations and the attack on masculinity, either directly or indirectly, many men I've noticed aren't self aware they are men and how they could be perceived.

It's like the example of a man crossing over the road if a woman on her own is walking towards him on the same path. There is a noticeable amount of men who aren't self aware.

I still agree with you and it's disconcerting for a man to do so, and perhaps gentlemanly for him to cross over to the other side to avoid startling.... but it's not an offence...!

I think as a society, we have to decide where we draw the line for legal intervention and where we can deal with things as adults...

 

[GGizmo]

I still agree with you and it's disconcerting for a man to do so, and perhaps gentlemanly for him to cross over to the other side to avoid startling.... but it's not an offence...!

I think as a society, we have to decide where we draw the line for legal intervention and where we can deal with things as adults...

I consider myself a good guy, and I always end up being someone other guys listen to in the circles I'm in.

From my own observations the standards of men started dropping when good guys were chided for calling out bad behaviour of men only for the good guys to be attacked by some women for being patronising and sexist.

So the result is no one corrects male bad behaviour these days. Bad behaviour becomes accepted as a part of life. I always remember a woman defending bad male behaviour with "boys will be boys". I found that patronising and sexist against men.

I think there really needs to be a conversation for males by males. Because over my Gen X generation we started out with good male models and advise. But the boys these days grow up with nothing. They just end up mimicking other boys who are also clueless.

I always remember one of my relatives buying me a book titled something like "The Good Boys Handbook". It might sound cheesey and corny, which I thought at the time of getting the gift. But it did teach basic manners and expectations that boys should try and uphold.

I'm not saying all was great back then. But at least kids had direction. If they did wrong they knew it was wrong. I don't think some these days know they are doing something wrong.

 

[katie279]

From my own observations the standards of men started dropping when good guys were chided for calling out bad behaviour of men only for the good guys to be attacked by some women for being patronising and sexist.

So the result is no one corrects male bad behaviour these days. Bad behaviour becomes accepted as a part of life. I always remember a woman defending bad male behaviour with "boys will be boys". I found that patronising and sexist against men.

I think there really needs to be a conversation for males by males. Because over my Gen X generation we started out with good male models and advise. But the boys these days grow up with nothing. They just end up mimicking other boys who are also clueless.

Entirely agree, although basically your whole point is we've stopped 'talking' and started legalising.

I think we need to stop this quasi religious witch hunting of men - they're not perfect, nor are women, but even more so, they aren't born so. They have to learn to be. And this is where the whole messy teenage years should be filled with kids trying out chat up lines, making a bad pass at someone, being a bit too forward, not being forward enough. Not only that, but as you said, this is where boys got the opportunity to demonstrate their own moral behaviour by 'pulling their friend aside and having a word' and so on.

Social interactions are messy by their nature and we have to give children and adults the opportunity to screw up.

The streets have never been safer in any long range data, women have never been safer, yet children, men and women are the most depressed and lonely they've ever been....

There's an irony perhaps that in a era when so many men and women are lonely, depressed and single we're clamouring over a man who pecked a woman after a football match.....

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

I thought he would get a slap on the wrist, leave of absence for a month and come back fresh. I think she's been manipulated by people around her to go this far with it all. It's seem very sad that this interaction can destroy a persons life like this. It's clearly a mistake in todays world and he should have known better, emotions can do that to you, but i think that says more about the world we're living tbh

Nothing sad about it at all, the guy's a scumbag and I'm glad his life's being destroyed.

He blamed her for the kiss, he blamed feminists for the backlash he received, he refused to apologise, he refused to resign and then he threatened to sue her. He thought his position in football and power over women as a male meant he was untouchable, he's finding out the hard way it just doesn't work like that any more.

**** him and **** anyone that supports him.

 

[tamzzy]

The female interviewer looked uncomfortable with the kiss from the footballer she was interviewing.

that was iker casillas and sara cabonero, they were dating at the time of the interview

 

[Trusty]

He blamed her for the kiss, he blamed feminists for the backlash he received, he refused to apologise, he refused to resign and then he threatened to sue her.

He didn't blame the kiss on her, he said it was consensual. As for the other parts of your post, if he thought he was innocent, those are the logical positions you would take.

He thought his position in football and power over women as a male meant he was untouchable

He doesn't come across like that in the video, seems to be very happy for the womens football team.

 

[arknor]

bet he wouldn't kiss the mens team on the lips, and probably not the cheek either.

lets face it he kissed her because shes a woman, and probably one hes been wanting to for a long time.

she looks delighted right now, heres my chance


shouldn't the relationship between them be more like teacher and student, most men probably wouldn't even kiss their own daughter on the lips.
anyone seen it at a graduation ceremony ?? would you think its creepy?

 

[bigmike20vt]

**** him and **** anyone that supports him.

and this kind of attitude is part of the problem as well.
essentially your are building A massive strawman and followed by you are.saying **** you if you don't agree with me,
this is classic cancel culture logic and it doesn't change people's minds (something which could come from open friendly discussion)
it just forces people to keep quiet but hide their views.
No one "supports" him. from what I can see even the most forgiving opinions of it admit it was stupid in today's society.

My view is more critical. I think he should have lost his job (actually more so for other stuff he did like the crotch grabbing and just generally not being a nice bloke and a poor role model.

but the main thing I think most people think is that a court case and possible prison is a massive overstep , esp if it's for a peck, yes even one on the lips.

 

[Richie]

Definitely not...

TOP 10 most Memorable Kisses in Football

⚽️TOP 10 most Memorable Kisses in Football Thanks for Watching! Don`t forget to like and share the video! Subscribe now!⚽️If you want to publish your video...

youtu.be

Viewer discretion advised - plenty of assaults....

It's like the example of a man crossing over the road if a woman on her own is walking towards him on the same path. There is a noticeable amount of men who aren't self aware.

I'm self aware but I'm not going to intentionally cross the road as you describe above. I know I am not some kind of deviant who plans to do anything so I am not going to pander to any policing of my behaviour determined solely by what others have done or what people may think... That is not my issue to deal with.

I always remember one of my relatives buying me a book titled something like "The Good Boys Handbook". It might sound cheesey and corny, which I thought at the time of getting the gift. But it did teach basic manners and expectations that boys should try and uphold.

I wonder if there is a "The Good Girls Handbook" where it teaches basic manners and expectations of girls e.g. not flashing your bits on OF for example... Or would such a book be deemed misogynistic or oppressive to women and girls today?

I think we need to stop this quasi religious witch hunting of men - they're not perfect, nor are women, but even more so, they aren't born so. They have to learn to be. And this is where the whole messy teenage years should be filled with kids trying out chat up lines, making a bad pass at someone, being a bit too forward, not being forward enough.

Social interactions are messy by their nature and we have to give children and adults the opportunity to screw up.

There is a Piers Morgan clip (I know, I know but bear with me as it's not actually him this time) where something similar to what you state above is said and that boys are now terrified of approaching girls, primarily in their bumbling teenage years, for fear of having their entire lives ruined forever... Ava Santina basically says "I love that they are terrified and they should be"

I mean WTAF... This is the kind of woman pushing for changes. Sure, changes might be needed but we run the risk of people like her being the driving force behind it

Found the clip (fast forward to 4min mark until 5 mins mark to get context)

The streets have never been safer in any long range data, women have never been safer, yet children, men and women are the most depressed and lonely they've ever been....

"Women and Girls" is the new buzz phrase following on from BLM and Metoo.

Nothing sad about it at all, the guy's a scumbag and I'm glad his life's being destroyed.

**** him and **** anyone that supports him.

I was going to debate this with you but, given your last statement, it's not worth the effort... Common tactic of someone who is likely unable to defend a POV if challenged is to shut down the conversation with that style of comment but, of course, only after you have said your bit ... Like this

"Here is what I think" followed by

It's a pathetic way to argue

 

[Devilman]

There is a Piers Morgan clip (I know, I know but bear with me as it's not actually him this time) where something similar to what you state above is said and that boys are now terrified of approaching girls, primarily in their bumbling teenage years, for fear of having their entire lives ruined forever... Ava Santina basically says "I love that they are terrified and they should be"

I mean WTAF... This is the kind of woman pushing for changes. Sure, changes might be needed but we run the risk of people like her being the driving force behind it

Who cares if some deluded woman wants to push for changes where boys are "scared" ?

Seriously.. "we run the risk of people like her ....." Is as weak of an argument as the whole "it's a slippery slope".

She is 1 voice in a sea of millions and last I checked there was no "make boys terrified" movement being spearheaded by her.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

It's the entitled males who are the real victims here.

 

[katie279]

Whenever a statement involves the words 'entitled', 'lived experience' or an identity group, you're never on the side of science, evidence or reality....

 

[katie279]

I'm self aware but I'm not going to intentionally cross the road as you describe above. I know I am not some kind of deviant who plans to do anything so I am not going to pander to any policing of my behaviour determined solely by what others have done or what people may think... That is not my issue to deal with.

Think there's another point to this, by not doing so you also teach women that it's not the end of the world to walk past a man and that the vast majority are normal...

There is a Piers Morgan clip (I know, I know but bear with me as it's not actually him this time) where something similar to what you state above is said and that boys are now terrified of approaching girls, primarily in their bumbling teenage years, for fear of having their entire lives ruined forever... Ava Santina basically says "I love that they are terrified and they should be"

I know, she's swallowed the whole red book....

"Women and Girls" is the new buzz phrase following on from BLM and Metoo.

Dangerous phrase given we don't actually know what a woman is anymore in Scotland....

 

[RxR]

So mail order Scots brides are a nono?

 

[GGizmo]

I'm self aware but I'm not going to intentionally cross the road as you describe above. I know I am not some kind of deviant who plans to do anything so I am not going to pander to any policing of my behaviour determined solely by what others have done or what people may think... That is not my issue to deal with.

You're thinking about it the wrong way. By crossing the road you are acknowledging your own strength and power of protection.

There is nothing more masculine from a man to be able to protect the vulnerable.

The protection trait is the main one women mention when looking for a partner.

I wonder if there is a "The Good Girls Handbook" where it teaches basic manners and expectations of girls e.g. not flashing your bits on OF for example... Or would such a book be deemed misogynistic or oppressive to women and girls today?

I think there were at least comics I've seen for girls.

I think one of the tragedies these days is there isn't any easily accessible children's programmes on tv. The channels they are on are far away from the regular channels, and since the teletubbies everything is dumbed down.

Some of the kids programmes of the past are better than most adult programmes today, in my opinion.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

He didn't blame the kiss on her, he said it was consensual. As for the other parts of your post, if he thought he was innocent, those are the logical positions you would take.

Apologies, he didn't no. He said she picked him up and consented to the kiss as you said.

I'm pretty sure he doubled down and pleaded innocence when he was told a non consensual kiss in Spain, if proven, could lead to a 4 year prison sentence though.

He doesn't come across like that in the video, seems to be very happy for the womens football team.

Sorry, that was in reference to the speech he gave a while later in front of the audience.

 

[Hades]

It's like the example of a man c/rossing over the road if a woman on her own is walking towards him on the same path. There is a noticeable amount of men who aren't self aware.

Why would a man cross the road in that scenario? If the woman is uncomfortable then she is welcome to cross the road herself. I will cross the road if I am walking the same direction as a woman, it is late at night, dark and we are the only two people in the area. But if she is walking towards me then she can make her own decision to move over if she chooses.

Yes there is some male on female violence (there is more male on male violence). But what society seems to have forgotten is that historically (good) men have been the protectors of women. Most men used to help look out for women. That seems to have stopped with modern society demonising many men for simply being men. Each person should be judged by their actions not their sex. In the past I've stepped in to help women (I threw someone off a train when they were touching a woman's leg and I stepped in between a man and a woman after he slapped her, only for her to turn on me for threatening her boyfriend). Nowadays I would need to have a second thought before I decide to help. I think it would have to be a fairly serious situation for me to step in now.