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Microsoft Locks Ryzen, Kaby Lake Users Out of Updates On Windows 7, 8.1

Curlyriff said:
Interesting, thanks for the feedback also as it shows different groups as well. Interestingly I had done the same with a few people who I built PC's for and offered W7 or W10 and they had a try on a dual boot PC I had and said they didn't care as long as it worked. Both have a start menu, desktop icons, search function and internet and work with basic programs fine and that is all they were worried about. Navigation has zero difference in premise and the start menu with the small tiled icons most preferred as they found it visually easier to find what they wanted.
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I just left them with default config for start menu, Windows 10's start menu can be significantly improved with light tweaking - it could and should be a significant strength for 10 but they have crippled it by trying to push a specific style rather than exploiting the potential (i.e. more like Android launcher in respect to customisation options both as a menu or screen and with proper group management, etc.)

I think one factor is that the default Windows look with the smoothness and bevels, etc. gives 7 a friendlier look (some of these people are almost afraid to move the mouse incase they break something) while 10 has a colder more serious look. I hope they adopt a Zune alike theme system wide atleast as an option as I quite liked that on XP and the default 10 one is aesthetically gash.
 
Don't think it disables updates on 10 - the gripe is it ostensibly locks you out of all updates on 7/8 I believe not just forces you to do it manually.
 
Rroff said:
I just left them with default config for start menu, Windows 10's start menu can be significantly improved with light tweaking - it could and should be a significant strength for 10 but they have crippled it by trying to push a specific style rather than exploiting the potential (i.e. more like Android launcher in respect to customisation options both as a menu or screen and with proper group management, etc.)

I think one factor is that the default Windows look with the smoothness and bevels, etc. gives 7 a friendlier look (some of these people are almost afraid to move the mouse incase they break something) while 10 has a colder more serious look. I hope they adopt a Zune alike theme system wide atleast as an option as I quite liked that on XP and the default 10 one is aesthetically gash.
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Yeah that is fair enough, I mean mine looks like the default start menu with the icons just resized and sorted and ones that are browser games etc removed. I like the standard look myself but get why others may not. It is odd cause I always made W7 look as close to what W10 happens to look like now.

They do as you say need to add more customisation but it already has more than W7 and is a step in the right direction. As I said before the actual start menu was the strongest point from everyone I provide PC's for and offer the options. The search function is better too generally I have found.

Aesthetically are of course personal but I am not sure that makes or breaks the OS. As said I really have always disliked how W7 is but I still used it and do on a single work computer (rest are W10).

I am not really sure as base functionality what makes W10 so bad to W7?
 
Thing is with 7 if you hated the UI you could disable aero/re-enable classic look or use 3rd party themes/reskin and be done with it - with 10 there is always a risk (and more than just a small one) with the amount of large UI changes that happen and are planned (i.e. some limited Zune theming coming) that 3rd party UI tweaks will either break with a future update or worse break a future update potentially requiring a reinstall of the OS.
 
Rroff said:
Thing is with 7 if you hated the UI you could disable aero/re-enable classic look or use 3rd party themes/reskin and be done with it - with 10 there is always a risk (and more than just a small one) with the amount of large UI changes that happen and are planned (i.e. some limited Zune theming coming) that 3rd party UI tweaks will either break with a future update or worse break a future update potentially requiring a reinstall of the OS.
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Hmm I guess, but then even with W7 those potentials to 3rd party were there too.

So far the 3rd party W10 stuff has been fine as I am aware though. They are normally on the ball.

For anyone with W10 I have found this handy I have found and good to use to make it simple to decide what you want on/off

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/ultimate-windows-tweaker-4-windows-10 Might not be as handy for people more familiar with the system and tweaking but if you setting something up for someone adding this in and then showing them what it can do is handy.

And it is linked here along with others that are pretty good from experience of just trying them out:

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/7-best-tools-tweak-customize-windows-10/
 
Rroff said:
Thanks - like many completely misunderstanding the point I'm making and looking very short term at something that is unfolding right before your eyes and too blind to see it.

It isn't so much might or could - MS major feature updates very much have and do make major changes often with significant compatibility fallout (i.e. 1607) there is a very high chance of an update undoing things like classic shell as the UI changes underneath and it doesn't take much observation of the direction MS is taking to consider that them going on to trying to lockout or make it much harder to remove things they want in the OS like Cortana at a future date.
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i have taken up W10 since it was released and have not had any problems or ongoing issues. I didn't have any issues with internet connectivity or any sort of corruption of my system. I have 5 computers all running W10 and with a mixture of upgrades from W7 & 8.1 and clean fresh retail install. So I am not sure what you are chatting about. but W10 has been great. and it is a far superior OS when compared with 8.1.

I happen to like the interface style of W10 and the only annoying thing I have is that to get to control panel I have to use search or create a shortcut. other than that i am not working any differently to what I was doing on W7.

Windows Vista was a bag of crap and so was W95. don't bundle those with the workhorse that is XP and W7.
 
pc-guy said:
So I am not sure what you are chatting about
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With the nature of Windows 10 where the underlying UI core as well as the UI itself can change dramatically between updates there is a real risk that 3rd party software that modifies system files, etc. so reskin the OS and so on can cause problems with future update, either the 3rd party software itself no longer functioning or the update malfunctioning.
 
Rroff said:
With the nature of Windows 10 where the underlying UI core as well as the UI itself can change dramatically between updates there is a real risk that 3rd party software that modifies system files, etc. so reskin the OS and so on can cause problems with future update, either the 3rd party software itself no longer functioning or the update malfunctioning.
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well, don't use 3rd party skins.

isn't that the same with all 3rd party softwares? you can't expect the OS provider to keep old and outdated codes for the sake of some random developer's visual...I mean even on Android, there is an understanding that if there is an update there will be some issues with APPs that have been installed and thus the developers are quick to update their APPs especially major revisions. Albeit the devs will have the OS source code much earlier than the release to bug test etc.

it is not something new or bad practise. it is common practice. If you keep on providing legacy support or obscure software and hardware support the OS will become bloated and unstable much like what W95/W2k/W Vista etc used to do, memory leaky, random bluescreens, driver/system corruptions...the list goes on and on.
 
pc-guy said:
well, don't use 3rd party skins.

isn't that the same with all 3rd party softwares? you can't expect the OS provider to keep old and outdated codes for the sake of some random developer's visual...I mean even on Android, there is an understanding that if there is an update there will be some issues with APPs that have been installed and thus the developers are quick to update their APPs especially major revisions. Albeit the devs will have the OS source code much earlier than the release to bug test etc.

it is not something new or bad practise. it is common practice. If you keep on providing legacy support or obscure software and hardware support the OS will become bloated and unstable much like what W95/W2k/W Vista etc used to do, memory leaky, random bluescreens, driver/system corruptions...the list goes on and on.
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Which is essentially my point - that you can't rely on some of these things to change how Windows 10 works and then forget about it with the risk that future updates, which on 10 are far more likely to make changes of that nature than other OSes like 7 where updates were far less likely to make dramatic changes to the kernel, etc.
 
Rroff said:
Which is essentially my point - that you can't rely on some of these things to change how Windows 10 works and then forget about it with the risk that future updates, which on 10 are far more likely to make changes of that nature than other OSes like 7 where updates were far less likely to make dramatic changes to the kernel, etc.
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I don't think Widnows 10 is open source yet. So I can't imagine any kernel change should affect 3rd party software as 3rd party software should not have access to the kernel of the OS. So I don't think your concern is realistic until MS open the coding to the public.

also I think any fundamental change is to close out exploits, so I would say it is highly welcomed.
 
pc-guy said:
I don't think Widnows 10 is open source yet. So I can't imagine any kernel change should affect 3rd party software as 3rd party software should not have access to the kernel of the OS. So I don't think your concern is realistic until MS open the coding to the public.

also I think any fundamental change is to close out exploits, so I would say it is highly welcomed.
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A good bit of 3rd party software interacts with the kernel at an unsupported level whether that is using system API calls not intended to be used outside of MS code, hooking functionality or replacing DLLs with hacked or complete replacements and so on, usually software that significantly changes the look or features of Windows has to do this.

So yes kernel changes can very much break compatibility with these types of software and vice versa the nature of how they modify the system can break future updates that assume things are as MS deployed them and with the nature of 10 much more likely to happen than with 7 or 8.

Windows 10 is very much an OS in the throes of evolving so there are a lot of fundamental changes ongoing not just security ones. Even things like migrating settings to the new control panel can involve extensive changes under the good including how they are accessed or modified from command code i.e. the naming, layout and parameters used for rundll calls that are often used to call OS functions by 3rd party software.
 
Does anyone know about VMs? Would be possible for a host OS, say running on a Ryzen, to portray the hardware as an older intel CPU (say Broadwell) to any hosted VM guests? I've got a W8.1 installation that I'd like to keep running, but also would love to update to a very modern CPU. Just wondering if its would be technically feasible. Running the W8.1 in a VM would be good also, as its a work install, so easy backups/snapshots etc would be really useful.
 
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