I had the same experience when I passed through Naples eleven years ago, so it's not necessarily down to the recent immigration crisis.
Migrants - Italy making a stand
- Thread starter robfosters
- Start date
I had the same experience when I passed through Naples eleven years ago, so it's not necessarily down to the recent immigration crisis.
Associate
Are you on this boat ?
There's no appetite for unlimited influx of economic migrants in Europe, I've said it in the Tommy Robinson thread but if the EU are so against the 'far right' it's strange that their policies seem to be designed to push everyone there by for example completely ignoring the peoples of Europe. Even the word 'populist' that they use is an antagonistic term, it's basically the EU leaders ignoring the will of the people and doing whatever they want and then getting annoyed at democratic parties and groups who actually listen to the people and try to implement the policies they want rather than EU diktat.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jul 2004
- Posts
- 7,109
Hilarious that you think these people get jobs once they have arrived. Look at the statistics for Germany. The vast majority are on state handouts.
Quite possibly the most ridiculous post ever in GD, and that’s up against some pretty stiff competition!
Source? Meanwhile, I'm trying to find the Guardian article which explained how Germany was moping up all of the Syrian Engineers and Doctors but I'm having trouble finding it. Anyone got it to hand?
Source? Meanwhile, I'm trying to find the Guardian article which explained how Germany was moping up all of the Syrian Engineers and Doctors but I'm having trouble finding it. Anyone got it to hand?
https://www.ft.com/content/e1c069e0-872f-11e7-bf50-e1c239b45787
Cannot find the Guardian report, but I can keep fishing it will be around somewhere.
Link has gone strange. Full sp.
How well have Germany’s refugees integrated?
Data reveal more asylum seekers are being sent to regions with fewer jobs per capita
Valentina Romei, Billy Ehrenberg-Shannon, Haluka Maier-Borst and Guy Chazan
September 19, 2017 Print this page
Over the past three years, more refugees have arrived in Germany than anywhere else in the EU.
The biggest such influx since the second world war has created huge challenges for Chancellor Angela Merkel. Two years after she proclaimed “Wir schaffen das (we can do it)” as she agreed to take in 1m mainly Syrian asylum seekers, it has become clear the challenge has been taken up unevenly across Germany.
Refugees tend to be sent to regions with plentiful housing. But these are also places with higher unemployment and lower-quality jobs. The fact such deprived areas have been allocated more refugees per capita than richer regions could make the newcomers’ integration more difficult.
As Germans prepare to go to the polls, we take a look at the data to see how well the new arrivals have settled in.
1. The arrivals
More than 1.4m people have applied for asylum in Germany since 2014, more than 43 per cent of total applications to the EU. This is four times the number for Italy, six times that of France and nearly 12 times more than in the UK.
About 800,000 applications have been accepted. This figure dwarfs even that of the 1990s, when the number of asylum applicants from the collapsing Soviet Union and Yugoslavia rose.
Unlike then, many of the latest asylum seekers are expected to stay long term, largely because of continued conflict in their countries of origin, according to the OECD.
2. Who are they and where are they from?
Those seeking asylum in Germany tend to be younger than elsewhere and mostly Syrian. This is partly for historical reasons. “Prior to the refugee crisis, Germany was, by and large, the largest recipient of Syrians in Europe,” said Thomas Liebig, economist at the OECD migrant division. And unlike other refugees, many Syrians fled their country with entire families, including children.
3. Wherever I lay my hat
Once asylum seekers have been preregistered in Germany, they are sent to reception centres, often former army barracks with several hundred beds. Depending on their country of origin, they stay in these centres for up to six months or until their application is decided on. After this they are generally sent to group housing, or are allocated private apartments.
About 60 per cent of Germany’s refugees were living in reception centres or collective accommodation at the end of 2015 (the latest data available).
Najib Asaad arrived in Germany in late 2014. He stayed for about nine months in a reception centre in the Bavarian town of Fürstenfeldbruck before moving into a private flat in nearby Germering. He lives there with his wife Sarah Alkhouri, 10-year-old son Ayed and eight-month-old daughter Larissa.
At every step of his integration he has been helped by a local volunteer, Dirk Hasenjaeger, a car dealer.
“Dirk really helped me find the flat,” he says. “I would look at the small ads and he would call the landlords. Without his help I don’t know how I would have coped.”
Najib Asaad, an engineer from Damascus, with his wife Sarah and daughter Larissa. A local volunteer helped the family find a flat © Dieter Mayr/FT
4. Final destination
Which German state an asylum seeker is sent to depends on availability of accommodation, the state’s population size and tax revenue and the refugee’s country of origin. “Local labour market conditions are hardly accounted” in the national distribution of refugees, according to the OECD.
A Financial Times analysis, which compared the 10 per cent of areas with the largest per capita refugee intake with the rest of the population, shows refugees in Germany are disproportionately placed in areas of high unemployment and worse job prospects.
5. Getting a job
About 20 per cent of refugees from war-torn and crises-afflicted countries — namely Afghanistan, Eritrea, Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Somalia and Syria — had jobs in June this year. This is a slight improvement on the 15 per cent registered in June last year.
Those in employment are largely in low-skilled jobs. About 36,000 people from the eight countries entered the workforce between June last year and May this year, and of those, 8,400 had a contract with a temporary work agency and more than 5,800 worked in the hospitality sector.
Mohammad al-Hamoud is a 27-year-old petrochemical engineer from Deir Ezzor in Syria who arrived in Germany in January 2016. He is lucky: shortly after completing his German language course in June he found a job with a small company near Munich that specialises in hard chrome plating.
“It’s hard at the start in Germany — there’s so much paperwork — but it gets easier,“ he says. “My hopes have been fulfilled. I love the work.”
Mohammad al-Hamoud, a Syrian engineer, found work after completing a German language course
6. Sprechen Sie Deutsch?
Key to getting a job, even a low-skilled one, is speaking good German. In August there were 196,000 unemployed asylum seekers, a 28 per cent increase over the same month in the previous year, while 300,000 were enrolled in so-called integration courses, in which they learn the language. The 600-hour programme is designed to help people reach an intermediate standard of German.
7. Put a figure on it
According to the OECD, Germany spent about €16bn, or 0.5 per cent of GDP, in 2015 on refugees. That year, the country received about 900,000 asylum seekers. This compares to €6bn in Sweden, the country with the highest per capita inflow of refugees, or 1.3 per cent of GDP. In the US, spending on refugees was 0.01 per cent of output.
Funding for integration courses increased from €244m in 2015 to €610m in 2017.
Unfortunately the FT link is behind a pay wall but I'm assuming its the one which points out that Syrian Migrants contribute more to the German economy than natives per capita i.e. same as over here in the UK ????
Man of Honour
Strictly speaking you're right but you have to take into account a number of factors such as language barriers, and adjusting to life in very different country. About 20% of refugees into Germany are working. Anecdotally I've heard that they're a little standoffish but are willing to learn German and integrate into society (my aunt works for a NGO in Germany).
Housing them and moving them around Germany is also a lengthy process, 50% of them are on integration courses so it'll take some time before employment figures start to rise.
Looks like they're also being moved into areas that happen to have less than ideal job prospects.
https://www.ft.com/content/e1c069e0-872f-11e7-bf50-e1c239b45787
A quote from a more recent article:
Soldato
Yup
Soldato
Why dont they head towards usa since they seem to cause more instability than anyone else.
at least with the Syrians you will have some well qualified candidates (inc Engineers, Doctors)
When you've got a boat full of randoms from sub Sahara Africa trying their luck then highly skilled types are a bit rarer
Some places in London aren't far off that already :/
That's the thing, they can't move them to areas with the best prospects because there is no room for them. All those areas are already filled and property is generally pretty expensive, no matter where in Europe it is lol.
If you migrate to a first world country with no skills, your starting right from the bottom and probably getting dumped in some ******** no one else wants to live in. But some seem to be expecting free houses and luxury cars on arrival.
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I would currently describe myself as slightly left wing, but this boat should have been turned around and sent right back.
Yes Naples is a dump, but its been that way for many years. I visited around 15 years ago and again last year, both times were not particularly great. They do nice pizzas though
Ashame, since the rest of Italy is gorgeous.
Yes Naples is a dump, but its been that way for many years. I visited around 15 years ago and again last year, both times were not particularly great. They do nice pizzas though
Ashame, since the rest of Italy is gorgeous.
Soldato
I would currently describe myself as slightly left wing, but this boat should have been turned around and sent right back.
Yes Naples is a dump, but its been that way for many years. I visited around 15 years ago and again last year, both times were not particularly great. They do nice pizzas though
Ashame, since the rest of Italy is gorgeous.
Well there's plenty of Italy that is a whole. Having ridden through it many times, I don't care to again.
Permabanned
And whilst the world watches the North Korean leader meeting President Donald Trump he has quietly furthered his anti migrant promises to his voters by revoking the ludicrously open ended and doubtlessly abused back door into the USA:
US asylum: Domestic and gang violence cases 'no longer generally qualify'
The US attorney general has ruled that victims of domestic abuse and gang violence should no longer generally qualify for asylum in the US.
Jeff Sessions' ruling overturns a 2016 decision which granted asylum to a woman from El Salvador who had been raped and abused by her husband.
Activists criticised the move, saying it will affect tens of thousands.
Mr Sessions has said he has a "zero tolerance" stance toward illegal immigration on the country's border.
"Generally, claims by aliens pertaining to domestic violence or gang violence perpetrated by non-governmental actors will not qualify for asylum," Mr Sessions wrote in his 31-page ruling released on Monday.
"The mere fact that a country may have problems effectively policing certain crimes - such as domestic violence or gang violence - or that certain populations are more likely to be victims of crime, cannot itself establish an asylum claim."
The anti migrant pressure can only increase, ongoing news of "Brexit" and the Korean meeting has kept illegal migrancy in the tens or hundreds of thousands off our screens this year, so far, but still Africa and other regions empty into Europe with the nefarious aid of so called NGO's who have a well oiled (in probably every sense) system to move as many illegals, as fast as possible, into Europe. In times of fears of more terrorist attacks you couldn't make this up, as Spain, a country well accustomed to terrorism opens its door to a ship full of illegals that could easily have been denied access and forced to return to Libya with its undocumented cargo.
Spain's leader says he wants to draw the EU's attention to the situation of migrants. Sounds ominously like we have a near neighbour in support of Europe taking yet more undocumented young blokes who just roll up on the beaches and in the ports, rather than send them back from whence they came...
Just do some basic maths and assume in the case of Germany a paltry 3% of the over 1.3 million migrants the unsteady Merkel has invited to the country are ineligible for asylum. 3% is almost certainly ludicrously low a figure. That's 39,000 people who should be being returned home. How many have they shifted so far.....?
As for those that say "we" need more migration into Europe it seems the economists have a depressing outlook for their productivity, most of those doctors and engineers supporters espoused about don't exist! :
Up to three quarters of Germany’s refugees will still be unemployed in five years’ time, according to a government minister, in a stark admission of the challenges the country faces in integrating its huge migrant population. Aydan Özoğuz, commissioner for immigration, refugees and integration, told the Financial Times that only a quarter to a third of the newcomers would enter the labour market over the next five years, and “for many others we will need up to 10”. The admission could prove awkward for Angela Merkel as she seeks a fourth term as chancellor in Bundestag elections this September. Ms Merkel saw her poll ratings plummet in 2015 when she responded to Europe’s gathering refugee crisis by throwing open Germany’s borders. The migrant issue no longer dominates the country’s nightly news bulletins, but pollsters say the question of how it will absorb the 1.3m migrants who have arrived here since the start of 2015 is still one of voters’ key concerns. That explains the continuing popularity of the Alternative for Germany, an anti-immigrant party that is now represented in 12 of Germany’s 16 regional parliaments. The AfD’s poll ratings have fallen in recent months but the party is still expected to pick up seats in the Bundestag for the first time in this year’s election. Initially, the influx of so many working-age, highly-motivated immigrants spurred optimism that they would mitigate Germany’s acute skills shortage and solve the demographic crisis posed by its dangerously low birth rate. Dieter Zetsche, chief executive of carmaker Daimler, said the refugees could lay the foundation for the “next German economic miracle”. 484,000 Number of refugees looking for work, up from 322,000 last July But those hopes have faded as a new realism about the migrants’ lack of qualifications and language skills sinks in. “There has been a shift in perceptions,” Ms Özoğuz told the FT. Many of the first Syrian refugees to arrive in Germany were doctors and engineers, but they were succeeded by “many, many more who lacked skills”. A recent report by the Institute for Employment Research (IAB) found that only 45 per cent of Syrian refugees in Germany have a school-leaving certificate and 23 per cent a college degree. Statistics from the Federal Labour Agency show the employment rate among refugees stands at just 17 per cent. It said 484,000 of the refugees are looking for work, up from 322,000 last July — an increase of 50 per cent. Of those, 178,500 are officially unemployed, meaning they not only have no work but are not enrolled in any training programmes or language courses — up 27 per cent on last July.
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The figures are terrifying for the cohesiveness of the German economy and for social tensions as even yesterday another child murder by an immigrant "known to the police" occurred in a park. These attacks, robberies, rapes and murders now seem to get little media attention, for whatever reason. Casual acceptance or a move to hide the escalating problems from the public for fear of civil unrest?
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Rhine-Westphalia on Monday. It was the latest in a series of murders of adolescent girls.
Police in Viersen were still holding a 25-year-old man from Turkey in connection with the crime on Tuesday morning.
The man, who is already known to the authorities, fled when police attempted to detain him on Monday. He later handed himself in, but police have not yet confirmed that he is a suspect.
On Monday shortly after midday a 15-year-old girl of Romanian citizenship was stabbed in a park in the town of 75,000 inhabitants. Bild reports that she was called Iulia R. and that she lived with her parents on the outskirts of town.
According to eyewitnesses, she collapsed as blood streamed from the wounds. A homeless man has told local media that he attempted to save her by holding her wounds together.
Emergency services arrived at the scene shortly after and rushed the teenager to hospital, but she died of her injuries shortly after.
Police then started a search in the town for the killer, who witnesses described as being around 1.70 metres tall and "of southern appearance.”
The Rheinische Post reports, based on police sources, that the murderer was romantically involved with his victim.
For reasons of tactical expediency, investigators have provided no further details about the crime, such as whether the murder weapon has been found.
This is the second time within a matter of days that the body of a murdered teenage girl has been discovered in Germany.
Last week, 14-year-old Susanna F.’s body was discovered near Wiesbaden in Hesse. Police suspect that she was raped and then murdered. A young Iraqi man has admitted to the murder but denied sexual assault.
Meanwhile, several teenage girls have been the victims of knife crime over the past six months.
In December last year a 15-year-old girl was stabbed to death in a drug store in the southwest of the country. Then in March, two teenage girls, one in Flensburg and one in Berlin, were stabbed to death.
Several of the crimes appear to have been motivated by jealousy on the part of the attacker.
The fact that the suspected murderers have often been asylum seekers has also led to a highly contentious debate on issues such as Angela Merkel’s refugee policies and the religious and cultural backgrounds of the attackers.
The Alternative for Germany (AfD) charge that Merkel made a momentous mistake by allowing hundreds of thousands of unregistered migrants to enter the country in late 2015. In the wake of the murder of Susanna F. they have called for Merkel and her entire cabinet to resign.
But critics charge the AfD with racism for statements which appear to portray all refugees who fled to Germany as dangers to society.
Their co-parliamentary leader Alice Weidel recently faced harsh criticism for disparaging remarks about girls who wear headscarves.
From: https://www.thelocal.de/20180612/teenage-girl-stabbed-to-death-in-west-germany
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Not much good to see here about the joys of multiculturalism is there?
US asylum: Domestic and gang violence cases 'no longer generally qualify'
The US attorney general has ruled that victims of domestic abuse and gang violence should no longer generally qualify for asylum in the US.
Jeff Sessions' ruling overturns a 2016 decision which granted asylum to a woman from El Salvador who had been raped and abused by her husband.
Activists criticised the move, saying it will affect tens of thousands.
Mr Sessions has said he has a "zero tolerance" stance toward illegal immigration on the country's border.
"Generally, claims by aliens pertaining to domestic violence or gang violence perpetrated by non-governmental actors will not qualify for asylum," Mr Sessions wrote in his 31-page ruling released on Monday.
"The mere fact that a country may have problems effectively policing certain crimes - such as domestic violence or gang violence - or that certain populations are more likely to be victims of crime, cannot itself establish an asylum claim."
The anti migrant pressure can only increase, ongoing news of "Brexit" and the Korean meeting has kept illegal migrancy in the tens or hundreds of thousands off our screens this year, so far, but still Africa and other regions empty into Europe with the nefarious aid of so called NGO's who have a well oiled (in probably every sense) system to move as many illegals, as fast as possible, into Europe. In times of fears of more terrorist attacks you couldn't make this up, as Spain, a country well accustomed to terrorism opens its door to a ship full of illegals that could easily have been denied access and forced to return to Libya with its undocumented cargo.
Spain's leader says he wants to draw the EU's attention to the situation of migrants. Sounds ominously like we have a near neighbour in support of Europe taking yet more undocumented young blokes who just roll up on the beaches and in the ports, rather than send them back from whence they came...
Just do some basic maths and assume in the case of Germany a paltry 3% of the over 1.3 million migrants the unsteady Merkel has invited to the country are ineligible for asylum. 3% is almost certainly ludicrously low a figure. That's 39,000 people who should be being returned home. How many have they shifted so far.....?
As for those that say "we" need more migration into Europe it seems the economists have a depressing outlook for their productivity, most of those doctors and engineers supporters espoused about don't exist! :
Up to three quarters of Germany’s refugees will still be unemployed in five years’ time, according to a government minister, in a stark admission of the challenges the country faces in integrating its huge migrant population. Aydan Özoğuz, commissioner for immigration, refugees and integration, told the Financial Times that only a quarter to a third of the newcomers would enter the labour market over the next five years, and “for many others we will need up to 10”. The admission could prove awkward for Angela Merkel as she seeks a fourth term as chancellor in Bundestag elections this September. Ms Merkel saw her poll ratings plummet in 2015 when she responded to Europe’s gathering refugee crisis by throwing open Germany’s borders. The migrant issue no longer dominates the country’s nightly news bulletins, but pollsters say the question of how it will absorb the 1.3m migrants who have arrived here since the start of 2015 is still one of voters’ key concerns. That explains the continuing popularity of the Alternative for Germany, an anti-immigrant party that is now represented in 12 of Germany’s 16 regional parliaments. The AfD’s poll ratings have fallen in recent months but the party is still expected to pick up seats in the Bundestag for the first time in this year’s election. Initially, the influx of so many working-age, highly-motivated immigrants spurred optimism that they would mitigate Germany’s acute skills shortage and solve the demographic crisis posed by its dangerously low birth rate. Dieter Zetsche, chief executive of carmaker Daimler, said the refugees could lay the foundation for the “next German economic miracle”. 484,000 Number of refugees looking for work, up from 322,000 last July But those hopes have faded as a new realism about the migrants’ lack of qualifications and language skills sinks in. “There has been a shift in perceptions,” Ms Özoğuz told the FT. Many of the first Syrian refugees to arrive in Germany were doctors and engineers, but they were succeeded by “many, many more who lacked skills”. A recent report by the Institute for Employment Research (IAB) found that only 45 per cent of Syrian refugees in Germany have a school-leaving certificate and 23 per cent a college degree. Statistics from the Federal Labour Agency show the employment rate among refugees stands at just 17 per cent. It said 484,000 of the refugees are looking for work, up from 322,000 last July — an increase of 50 per cent. Of those, 178,500 are officially unemployed, meaning they not only have no work but are not enrolled in any training programmes or language courses — up 27 per cent on last July.
#################################################
The figures are terrifying for the cohesiveness of the German economy and for social tensions as even yesterday another child murder by an immigrant "known to the police" occurred in a park. These attacks, robberies, rapes and murders now seem to get little media attention, for whatever reason. Casual acceptance or a move to hide the escalating problems from the public for fear of civil unrest?
###################################################
Rhine-Westphalia on Monday. It was the latest in a series of murders of adolescent girls.
Police in Viersen were still holding a 25-year-old man from Turkey in connection with the crime on Tuesday morning.
The man, who is already known to the authorities, fled when police attempted to detain him on Monday. He later handed himself in, but police have not yet confirmed that he is a suspect.
On Monday shortly after midday a 15-year-old girl of Romanian citizenship was stabbed in a park in the town of 75,000 inhabitants. Bild reports that she was called Iulia R. and that she lived with her parents on the outskirts of town.
According to eyewitnesses, she collapsed as blood streamed from the wounds. A homeless man has told local media that he attempted to save her by holding her wounds together.
Emergency services arrived at the scene shortly after and rushed the teenager to hospital, but she died of her injuries shortly after.
Police then started a search in the town for the killer, who witnesses described as being around 1.70 metres tall and "of southern appearance.”
The Rheinische Post reports, based on police sources, that the murderer was romantically involved with his victim.
For reasons of tactical expediency, investigators have provided no further details about the crime, such as whether the murder weapon has been found.
This is the second time within a matter of days that the body of a murdered teenage girl has been discovered in Germany.
Last week, 14-year-old Susanna F.’s body was discovered near Wiesbaden in Hesse. Police suspect that she was raped and then murdered. A young Iraqi man has admitted to the murder but denied sexual assault.
Meanwhile, several teenage girls have been the victims of knife crime over the past six months.
In December last year a 15-year-old girl was stabbed to death in a drug store in the southwest of the country. Then in March, two teenage girls, one in Flensburg and one in Berlin, were stabbed to death.
Several of the crimes appear to have been motivated by jealousy on the part of the attacker.
The fact that the suspected murderers have often been asylum seekers has also led to a highly contentious debate on issues such as Angela Merkel’s refugee policies and the religious and cultural backgrounds of the attackers.
The Alternative for Germany (AfD) charge that Merkel made a momentous mistake by allowing hundreds of thousands of unregistered migrants to enter the country in late 2015. In the wake of the murder of Susanna F. they have called for Merkel and her entire cabinet to resign.
But critics charge the AfD with racism for statements which appear to portray all refugees who fled to Germany as dangers to society.
Their co-parliamentary leader Alice Weidel recently faced harsh criticism for disparaging remarks about girls who wear headscarves.
From: https://www.thelocal.de/20180612/teenage-girl-stabbed-to-death-in-west-germany
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Not much good to see here about the joys of multiculturalism is there?
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Soldato
Problem is those who don't want immigrants and complain "they are taking our jobs" are so entitled by a benefit culture that they don't then take "their jobs' back and labour markets are left with gaping holes.
So until "the people" are willing to work there will always be a huge need for immigrant labour.
Permabanned
From my post above yours:
{in Germany....}
Statistics from the Federal Labour Agency show the employment rate among refugees stands at just 17 per cent. It said 484,000 of the refugees are looking for work, up from 322,000 last July — an increase of 50 per cent. Of those, 178,500 are officially unemployed, meaning they not only have no work but are not enrolled in any training programmes or language courses — up 27 per cent on last July.