Monaco Grand Prix 2011, Monte-Carlo - Race 6/19

NathanE said:
From the treatment he's getting from the BBC could it be that he becomes a bit of a media recluse like what happened to MSC?
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Without reading the rest of this thread...

We can only hope he does. It's not even funny for us to listen to any more, it's just cringeworthy stuff and it can only cause hindrance to the team. It certainly won't inject them with a sense of pride and positivity.
Hamilton would do well to shut up and drive like he used to. Leave the interviews to Button. :D
 
Kenai said:
You're stark raving mad, you must be. I can't even comprehend how you can watch that and think he had any time to do anything to avoid it. Maldonado sweeps across in milliseconds, there was quite literally nowhere to go and nothing he could have done.

You're living in a fantasy world.
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Nah, he isn't.
Hamilton is one of the top drivers in the world with reactions that would destroy us keyboard warriors.

He had places to go there and also, it was Maldonaldo's line to take.
Like I've said, there's racing and there's moronic, extreme optimistic overtaking attempts.
So the track is a load of ****, this does not mean we go to touring cars rules. Forcing people off the road is not F1.
 
You know I honestly believe that the incident between hamilton and massa was just unfortunate and no ones fault. You can clearly see lewis go for the gap thats there, only problem is massa also seems to catch webber quicker than he thought so he takes a half hearted dive up the inside of webber. 3 into 1 doesn't go, 2 into 1 barely works in that corner. I don't think hamilton should have got a penalty there, it began as a legitimate move, it just didn't pan out that's all, if anything Massa could have given a little more room?
Hamiltons other penaltys were deserved in my opinion, especially the move on Maldonardo, that was exactly as he said, optimistic. He just stuck his car up the inside and expected maldonardo to give him the place.
For me button was the star of the race, put in some stunning laps and did everything right, no one expected vettel and alonso to 1 stop, so I think mclaren were right to try something different, it could have worked.
 
realscot said:
For me button was the star of the race, put in some stunning laps and did everything right, no one expected vettel and alonso to 1 stop, so I think mclaren were right to try something different, it could have worked.
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Again, he started 2nd, ended 3rd, everyone around him had horrible pit stops, Button's team put him in for pits at the right moments, Vettel went out on the wrong tyres, he was way faster than Button, pulled out a lead without issue, then started to protect his tyres, Button gained but had to pit earlier as a result of thrashing his tyres.

Frankly if Vettel had done Button's strategy he would have been miles down the road when the safety car came out.

Likewise Button had the faster car, by a country mile, against a guy on 40 lap old tyres and didn't even try to make a move, he just waited, sorry but thats a very poor show.

Button had every piece of luck, every Red Bull, Ferrari screw up go his way and his own team screw up for Hamilton, he was given every chance and all Button had to do was actually take the chance handed to him, instead he backed off and waited for a miracle.

I think Button had one of the most boring drives with no guts today of almost his entire career.

If on the day everything goes your way, I mean everything, and every other guy is screwed heavily....... you still won't take your chances, whats the point?
 
Telescopi said:
the FIA has made it pretty clear they are allowing it, are all the teams supposed to go home in a sulk and not race until they tell the bad boys to stop breaking the rules?
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If the FIA do ban the EBD by silverstone, I think it will be a game changer, JMO mind, the whole mystical Adrian Newey thing and the flexi wing all depends on the EBD,

IMO RB can run the car at a steeper rake because of the extreme use of the EBD, the front wing then runs closer to the ground for geometrical reasons, the aerodynamic load on the front wing probably increases with the inverse of ride height squared and hence the wing flexes and runs even closer to the ground.

The effect of the rake at the rear of the car is to create a larger volume defuser, normally this would stall due to insufficient air flow, however the addition of the engine exhaust flow at low torque demand, gives sufficient flow for the defuser to work. When going full throttle along a straight, the defuser stalls again and hence has low drag.

Basically the RB aero package collapses with no EBD. I reckon RB will struggle to get podiums if they do ban the EBD.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Again, he started 2nd, ended 3rd, everyone around him had horrible pit stops, Button's team put him in for pits at the right moments, Vettel went out on the wrong tyres, he was way faster than Button, pulled out a lead without issue, then started to protect his tyres, Button gained but had to pit earlier as a result of thrashing his tyres.

Frankly if Vettel had done Button's strategy he would have been miles down the road when the safety car came out.

Likewise Button had the faster car, by a country mile, against a guy on 40 lap old tyres and didn't even try to make a move, he just waited, sorry but thats a very poor show.

Button had every piece of luck, every Red Bull, Ferrari screw up go his way and his own team screw up for Hamilton, he was given every chance and all Button had to do was actually take the chance handed to him, instead he backed off and waited for a miracle.

I think Button had one of the most boring drives with no guts today of almost his entire career.

If on the day everything goes your way, I mean everything, and every other guy is screwed heavily....... you still won't take your chances, whats the point?
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obviously you don't know that RB intended to put red tyres on Vettels car but mixed up and put on yellows, Button would then have had track position.

Alonso may well have won though.

Vettel decided to try to get to the end on the yellow tyres which TBH was a very skilful drive although they may have fallen of the cliff if the race had continued normally.

TBH I think the causing an avoidable accident rule should be saved for more extreme cases.
 
lol @ Massa's comment that "Hamilton needs to be taught a lesson". In all honesty, so does Massa by getting the boot from Ferrari. He has turned into such a useless driver. If all drivers were like Massa no one would watch F1.
 
LizardKing said:
People are being a bit over critical of Hamilton IMO, i'm no fan of the guy but its pretty clear to see the other drivers did little to help themselves.
I'll just quote Senna "And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver"
I applaud the guy for having the balls to try but agree his attitude did stink after the race.



Pretty sure i heard Brundle say there was only 3 overtakes last year.

Monaco is a great spectacle but its no great racing venue for today's cars.
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Agreed.

There was two racing drivers out there yesterday willing to put it on the line, De Resta and Hamilton.

And of-course they get a penalty.

Silly really.

Monaco should be kept, but perhaps extend the use of kers (longer & more) instead of DRS?
 
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Cavallino said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91893

Pirelli: Ban tyre changes after red flag.

Too little too late. Not everyday we get red flags.
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It's such a shame, as it would have entirely changed those last few laps - and all for the better. Not sure that McLaren should have been allowed to rebuild Hamilton's rear wing during the red flag period either. Is it just F1 that allows teams to work on cars during red flag periods? I know it's prohibited in NASCAR, which probably means it's prohibited in other North American race series as well.
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91891

I really don't get this, a former world champion states
Jackie Stewart said:
but the key is that you should not put yourself in a position where the other driver can retaliate in a fashion that will be negative to you
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so under that logic a driver should never attempt a over take in a corner just in case the defending driver turns in, what is the hell is the attacker supposed to do wait for the pit straight for the drs zone and kers.
Their obviously scared that crashing and overtaking might risk the viewing of their sponsors advertising.
formula 1 is become a joke rapidly
 
Abraxaz1 said:
so under that logic a driver should never attempt a over take in a corner just in case the defending driver turns in, what is the hell is the attacker supposed to do wait for the pit straight for the drs zone and kers.
Their obviously scared that crashing and overtaking might risk the viewing of their sponsors advertising.
formula 1 is become a joke rapidly
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+1

The worrying thing from all this is drivers like massa who can only get a result by closing the door will now know they can close the door and get the driver off their back by getting them a penalty, so the driver on the inside is penalised for the leading driver turning in.
 
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CaptainRAVE said:
+1

The worrying thing from all this is drivers like massa who can only get a result by closing the door will now know they can close the door and get the driver off their back by getting them a penalty, so the driver on the inside is penalised for the leading driver turning in.
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I think the main worrying issue is if overtaking moves that don't pan out are penalized again and again, drivers like lewis , Alonso and de resta will simply stop and concentrate on qualifying. and well end up with a repeat of the 1990 and early 00 where they would put in their qualifying laps then coast the entire grand prix but i suppose the f1 boss would like that more tv time for advertisers.
I wonder how long it will be before the teams give up on this year, Alonso already said that Ferrari should give up on race wins, how long before mclaren do the same?

 
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CaptainRAVE said:
+1

The worrying thing from all this is drivers like massa who can only get a result by closing the door will now know they can close the door and get the driver off their back by getting them a penalty, so the driver on the inside is penalised for the leading driver turning in.
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I've been repeating this like a rabid dog for years. Once a driver has a wheel inside or driving around the outside the lead car should have to leave a cars width.

That was you may see some mega battles and the end of this cutting off of the road. That's F1 drivers race craft for you, completely amatuer.

Villeneuve was one of the hardest drivers I have ever seen to pass and only once did he cut the road off on another driver and he apologised for not seeing him. He could place his car into the corners so he didn't need to run them off the track or turn into them.

I guess it's to be expected when MS got away with it for years.
 
Just seems too many penalties in the sport these days, every time theres a collision it comes back to the blame game and the drivers seek to get the other guy the penalty by talking about it over the radio, knowing they are being listened to....

I struggle to think of the last time two cars came together in an overtaking incident and both drivers just went 'thats racing' and got on with it, without trying to get the other guy some kind of penalty. The stewards/race director does the same....penalities dished out all the time rather than ignoring what happened.

Whilst the configuration of the cars and in Monaco's case, the track, conspires against overtaking, the present culture when overtaking gone wrong leads to a blame game and punishment for the guy subjectively seen at fault does not seem condusive to F1 as an exciting spectatorsport...whilst I don't want to see it turn into a BTCC style bumper car race, a little more leeway would surely encourage drivers to take a few more risks rather than following for lap after lap without so much as an attempt to overtake because its 'too difficult'. I suppose though that changing the cars design is the only thing that is going to give more overtaking opportunities regardless of giving the drivers more freedom to try it on!
 
Abraxaz1 said:
I wonder how long it will be before the teams give up on this year, Alonso already said that Ferrari should give up on race wins, how long before mclaren do the same?
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This is the other concern, the championship is nearly wrapped up.

While I know teams will still battle it out for the remaining positions, we will get to a point where they are just doing testing for next year.

I miss the seasons where McLaren and Ferrari were neck and neck for the championship. Little did we realise how that would hurt the spectacle of subsequent years.

I won't stop watching the races, but they aren't going to be as fun to watch.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
This is the other concern, the championship is nearly wrapped up.

While I know teams will still battle it out for the remaining positions, we will get to a point where they are just doing testing for next year.

I miss the seasons where McLaren and Ferrari were neck and neck for the championship. Little did we realise how that would hurt the spectacle of subsequent years.

I won't stop watching the races, but they aren't going to be as fun to watch.
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TBH I can foresee the teams switching to testing if Hamilton / button push vettel to third or lower in the next two races, If that happens i can see the championship opening up again, but i kinda doubt it unless the FIA ban exhaust blown rear diffusers but i somehow doubt the fia will actually do anything constructive for a sport, their not exactly know for picking the right decision.
If it turns to testing i wont be watching.
 
What an epic race. A real shame it didn't work out for Button, it was a bit of a shock that they decided to one stop.

Fantastic to watch the three of them racing so close together :)
 
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