Monaco Grand Prix 2014, Monte Carlo - Race 6/19

Hawk Tuah · 24 May 2014 at 16:19

My thoughts, it's going to be a penalty. The question is the severity. If they can't prove it was deliberate, then it will be a small grid penalty. If they think it was a deliberate, then it will be a bigger penalty.

What did renault get a few years back when they crashed to help Alonso?

drunkenmaster · 24 May 2014 at 16:24

Bug One said:
My thoughts, it's going to be a penalty. The question is the severity. If they can't prove it was deliberate, then it will be a small grid penalty. If they think it was a deliberate, then it will be a bigger penalty.

What did renault get a few years back when they crashed to help Alonso?

I think they might without proof say reversing towards the track while qualifying was happening with no chance to set another lap is the reason for a penalty effectively for blocking(though he blocked 9 cars rather than just the one?). If they are certain he did it they'll say it's for that and do a pit lane start.

Psycho Ned · 24 May 2014 at 16:27

Bug One said:
My thoughts, it's going to be a penalty. The question is the severity. If they can't prove it was deliberate, then it will be a small grid penalty. If they think it was a deliberate, then it will be a bigger penalty.

What did renault get a few years back when they crashed to help Alonso?

It was a year later they got busted for that when Piquet Jr blabbed about it so nothing after the race

Schumacher got demoted to the back after he parked it in qualifying in 2006. This is the FIA you're talking about though consistency has never been their strong point so if there is any punishment I wouldn't bother looking for trends in penalties!

englishpremier · 24 May 2014 at 16:28

If it was intentional, which I joked about when it happened, a better way would be to kiss the barrier and damage your suspension, or lose a nose. Job done. Though your mechanics won't be best pleased.

Can't be that hard to just go a tiny bit too hot into a corner or get on the power slightly early when trying to find more time.

utajoker · 24 May 2014 at 16:29

whats going on with rosberg? i fell asleep in q1.

It is being suggested he 'crashed' on purpose to stop the rest of q3 laps? a bit like schui did here?

that gif looks like he is trying to lock up, he doesn't even look like he is trying to go full speed to do it safely.

Clarkson · 24 May 2014 at 16:29

I think reversing back onto the track was moronic and unfair on Hamilton, but in regards to the gif, surely when heavily braking there will be some squirrelling which would require constant adjustment of the wheel?

Deliberate or not though my biggest gripe is not parking it well into the escape road on the left which could have prevented any yellow flags.

Psycho Ned · 24 May 2014 at 16:32

Would Rosberg have been penalised for not getting his car back after qualifying if he'd just parked it at the bottom of the slip road and got out?

Because otherwise I've got no idea why he was trying to get back out on track, the session was over and he wasn't going to do another lap so why not just pull over instead of trying dangerous manoeuvres like reversing?

this_is_gav · 24 May 2014 at 16:33

Monkey Puzzle said:
Yep, the rapid steering looks like an attempt to lock up, and although he's carrying too much speed into the corner why is he throwing the steering wheel all over the place whilst braking and so early into the corner whilst off the racing line? Doesn't fit with a mistake imo. The reversing afterwards just confirms it was an attempt to spoils other drivers' hot laps.

If he wants to lock up, why would he play with the wheel like that? Just press the pedal too hard. :confused:

Vertigo · 24 May 2014 at 16:34

drunkenmaster said:
I think they might without proof say reversing towards the track while qualifying was happening with no chance to set another lap is the reason for a penalty effectively for blocking(though he blocked 9 cars rather than just the one?). If they are certain he did it they'll say it's for that and do a pit lane start.

Tend to agree. Whether or not the lockups were deliberate, simply reversing onto the track straight away, when he knew full well there were still cars on hot laps, not just Lewis, was at best reckless and at worse deliberate blocking as he knew it would prolong the yellow flags.

That simple reversing manouvre alone is no less than Schumacher did at Rascasse IMHO.

MooMoo444 · 24 May 2014 at 16:34

Psycho Ned said:
Would Rosberg have been penalised for not getting his car back after qualifying if he'd just parked it at the bottom of the slip road and got out?

Because otherwise I've got no idea why he was trying to get back out on track, the session was over and he wasn't going to do another lap so why not just pull over instead of trying dangerous manoeuvres like reversing?

You gotta make it back to the pits 'under your own steam', I think parking and leaving the car is a DQ or a no time

drunkenmaster · 24 May 2014 at 16:36

this_is_gav said:
Look from the head-on view - there is rubber laid onto the track from his right-rear, which means it has locked - that's why he was correcting the car... only after that he locks the front.

You can see(from video on bbc on the incident) that the he's turning the wheel left/right before the lock up, from much further back than when the tire locks up and it looks to me like the tire track starts from when his front left locks up. Which you can see from the in car shot happens WAY after he starts messing around turning like a retard and braking.

It genuinely looks to me like he's turning the wheel like that, and on an odd line, to induce a lock up to give a plausible reason. The reversing on to a track with absolutely no chance to set another time just confirms it for me.

It doesn't make him evil, or anything other than a panicked decision in the heat of the moment. But I think he definitely reversed up to make the yellow flag stay out. People make bad decisions, it's human. If he did dodgy things repeatedly that would be a different matter.

Though just for those who have said he has no history, I still think his effectively driving people off the track a couple years back was pretty dodgy myself.

Demon · 24 May 2014 at 16:36

As much as it might look a little contrived, I think Nico is innocent and it's just one of those things..

I also think Lewis is justifiably annoyed, as are all 'top' drivers who only get to be top by being uber competitive...

I hope the FIA don't take it any further, and I can't wait for the race tomorrow, as boring as it could be, you just never know if we'll get another cracking race when the tyres don't behave as they should and people are on split strategies

drunkenmaster · 24 May 2014 at 16:39

this_is_gav said:
If he wants to lock up, why would he play with the wheel like that? Just press the pedal too hard.

This year, that wouldn't necessarily work remember, brake by wire. How hard you press the pedal isn't directly proportional to how much braking you get, the car does it's very best to prevent you from locking up. Brake by wire is to a certain degree, ABS for the rear wheels and it would be more obvious on telemetry if someone just slams on the brakes.

drunkenmaster · 24 May 2014 at 16:41

MooMoo444 said:
You gotta make it back to the pits 'under your own steam', I think parking and leaving the car is a DQ or a no time

I don't think that applies in these situations. I think that would be applied if they tested fuel and found out you have literally 1ml more than you need to pass the fuel left over test, but wouldn't have passed the test had you completed the lap under your own steam. So if you stop with half a lap to go and didn't have the amount required for testing + a half lap of fuel then you'd fail that test.

Flibster · 24 May 2014 at 16:41

From Mercedes F1 on Twitter

We love the passion in #F1 and clearly emotions are running high this afternoon from many of you! #TheFullMonte

The stewards are looking at the facts at the moment and we will inform you when we know more #TheFullMonte

Our post session report will be slightly delayed today, but we hope to clear up any questions you have then #TheFullMonte

Leeroy Jenkins · 24 May 2014 at 16:43

I don't believe in coincidence, my honest opinion is Nico is a clever guy under a lot of pressure and he was desperate to stop Hamiltons streak so he locked up on purpose.

CaptainRAVE · 24 May 2014 at 16:46

Vertigo1 said:
Tend to agree. Whether or not the lockups were deliberate, simply reversing onto the track straight away, when he knew full well there were still cars on hot laps, not just Lewis, was at best reckless and at worse deliberate blocking as he knew it would prolong the yellow flags.

That simple reversing manouvre alone is no less than Schumacher did at Rascasse IMHO.

If he did indeed reverse then that is pretty silly tbh and there is bound to be a penalty. I wonder whether it will be a fine or a grid penalty?

Vertigo · 24 May 2014 at 16:46

Moses said:
I basically agree with this. It's hard to know if going off was a mistake or not... but once he'd done it, he then made the conscious choice to reverse back out. He'd've known that he didn't have enough time to complete another lap, so should have just waited for other cars to go past/until he got an all clear from the team to reverse out.

Yep. Any driver with any scruples at all would have gone straight to the end of the escape road and sat there until the session ended and all cars had gone past, thus interfering as little as possible with others' laps.

Jono8 · 24 May 2014 at 16:47

lucarocks92 said:
I don't believe in coincidence, my honest opinion is Nico is a clever guy under a lot of pressure and he was desperate to stop Hamiltons streak so he locked up on purpose.

This. I think he knew his last lap wasn't good enough and that Lewis wasn't going to get pole, so he thought his best chance was to bring out the yellow flags.

What he did was bizarre and quite clearly deliberate (I.e. off the racing line and moving the wheel around so much). Then add the fact that he started reversing, causing even more upset to everyone else qualifying then.....well.

drunkenmaster · 24 May 2014 at 16:47

CaptainRAVE said:
If he did indeed reverse then that is pretty silly tbh and there is bound to be a penalty. I wonder whether it will be a fine or a grid penalty?

Considering how close Hamilton and Riccy were to him and considering that at almost every Q3(excluding when it rains harder towards the end than the beginning of q3) speeds up at least 2-3/10th's for the final runs, and often much more than that, potentially not just Hamilton would have got ahead of him on that lap. I think a grid penalty is in order otherwise it's crazy unfair to maybe multiple drivers.

I don't know what the rules are precisely but if Rosberg parked up as far to the left as possible he is effectively around a corner from the track and well out of the firing line, there shouldn't have been a yellow at that point though there could have been depending on their rules, it's still dangerous to reverse towards oncoming traffic in qualifying situation.