Motorsport Off Topic Thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/26721387

Red Bull may quit F1.

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz says his company could quit Formula 1 if he is not happy with the way the sport is run.

His remarks follow Red Bull driver Daniel Ricciardo's exclusion from the Australian Grand Prix and the adoption of new rules.

Mateschitz said Red Bull's future in F1 was more "to do with sportsmanship and political influence" than finance.

He said: "In these issues there is a clear limit to what we can accept."
He also referred to the "inappropriate politicisation" of the sport.
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Get the violins out.
 
Not sure if this has been posted, but if you're lucky enough to get BT sport, then they have V8 supercars on live by the looks of things from this weekends simmons plains races, and in HD!

Massive RESULT!
 
I dunno. Ferrari managed to whinge there way into making the FIA change from the I4 engine rules.

Pretty pathetic from Dietrech, but no different to the tantrums Luca has every time Ferrari don't get there way.

I've always said that RBRs involvement in F1 was on a short string that would be cut the moment things stopped going there way. They have no vested interest in F1 other than being a name on a winning car.
 
I've given Red Bull quite a wide berth etc. what with all the hating that goes on towards them / Vettel and the team itself etc. and Horner... but wow this is enough for me to make a comment on now...

What a petulant child Dietrich sounds like, so let me get this clear - they get 4 WDC and WCC titles on the trot, brake the rules when every other team chose to comply (even though they werent' confident of the fuel flow readings either) and then threatens to leave the Sport - effectively blackmailing by suggesting they'll leave if their appeal is not successful.

Wow. Just wow.

F1 was fine before RB joined. It'll be just fine again.

***will not be sad to see you leave !!!!***
 
Materschitz has said the same thing a few times over the years, regardless of them winning or not he has said many times that Redbull are not in F1 for the sake of being in F1 and will leave when it gets tot he point that they are in F1 for the sake of it. So this comment from him is nothing new, nothing petulant, and not even a far left view on what is going on in F1. It is getting ridicoulously political, and its detracting from the racing.

As for fuel flow gate Redbull have not been shown to have broken any rules YET. They didnt follow a technical directive, however that is not a rule.

All of the teams are guilty of pushing the limits, look at brawn in 2009 with the double diffuser. There was controversy for the first 4-5 races of that year as to wether of not they would ultimately be DQ'ed from all of those races. In the end they were not, but it all started in Australia and you didnt see them stopping using the diffuser now did you?
 
Syla5 said:
As for fuel flow gate Redbull have not been shown to have broken any rules YET. They didnt follow a technical directive, however that is not a rule.

All of the teams are guilty of pushing the limits, look at brawn in 2009 with the double diffuser. There was controversy for the first 4-5 races of that year as to wether of not they would ultimately be DQ'ed from all of those races. In the end they were not, but it all started in Australia and you didnt see them stopping using the diffuser now did you?
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Big differences between the two cases

1) Brawn was very open in 2007/8 in regards to how the rules allowed for a double defuser and very few listened (and remember other teams actually had them too, its just Brawn where the most successful)

2) They were always complying with the current rules, I dont believe they were ever at risk of being banned, just not able to use the DD going forward (once the FIA Council sat and decided)

3) RBR were warned several times during Australia that they were contravening rules and ignored the FIA . Yes they did break the rules otherwise they would not have been excluded from the results as they have been
 
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i haz McLaren \o/
 
FrankJH said:
Big differences between the two cases

1) Brawn was very open in 2007/8 in regards to how the rules allowed for a double defuser and very few listened (and remember other teams actually had them too, its just Brawn where the most successful)

2) They were always complying with the current rules, I dont believe they were ever at risk of being banned, just not able to use the DD going forward (once the FIA Council sat and decided)

3) RBR were warned several times during Australia that they were contravening rules and ignored the FIA . Yes they did break the rules otherwise they would not have been excluded from the results as they have been
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4) there's only one device capable if telling you how much fuel you used and RBR ignored this device.
There injector data is calibrated, isn't designed for this task etc.
 
FrankJH said:
Big differences between the two cases

1) Brawn was very open in 2007/8 in regards to how the rules allowed for a double defuser and very few listened (and remember other teams actually had them too, its just Brawn where the most successful)

2) They were always complying with the current rules, I dont believe they were ever at risk of being banned, just not able to use the DD going forward (once the FIA Council sat and decided)

3) RBR were warned several times during Australia that they were contravening rules and ignored the FIA . Yes they did break the rules otherwise they would not have been excluded from the results as they have been
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1) Redbull have been very open about the fact that they didnt breach the rules, and that they can prove this. The technical directive they did not agree to was the offset the FIA advised them to stick to, which they didnt have to because it was a directive not a rule.

2) Again redbull are complying with the rules, this time however the fia has banned now rather than leaving the hammer looming. Brawn were always running the potential of being DQ'ed from the opening rounds, it was spoken about at length.

3) RBR were warned that they were in breach based on the directive set offset that RBR did not agree with and believe they have sufficent evidience to prove that they have not breached any rule. Being excluded or not is not proof that they have breached the rule, it is merely further evidence that the FIA doesnt have a fixed president for how to deal with certain events.

4) there is one FIA Homologated device yes, the teams will all have different ways to measure fuel flow. Redbull have advised that they monitored the fuel flow via the injectors, pretty sure others will monitor in there own way as well.


My point is about the fact that Redbull have not breached any rule. They breached a technical directive, the two are different.

Even if Redbull have sufficent clear evidence to prove they were not in the wrong the FIA needs to be very clear with this ruling. If they overturn the DQ they need to make it clear how they handle such situations in the future. My hope is that the FIA stick to their guns and maintain the decision for the ban, otherwise its going to open up a whole can of worms about how teams measure fuel flow, my fear is that Redbull will be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the FIA sensor was fubar and they were comfortably within limits at all times, and the FIA have no choice but to role over.
 
Syla5 said:
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Red Bull had been notified during the race that the flow rate was exceeding 100kg/hour, which is the maximum in the regulations. The statement added that the team was asked to turn the rate down but declined to do so.

There you go. They are up **** creak without a paddle.

If by a very small chance the FIA do give way, then we will see all other teams racing over the FIAs 100kg\hour limit.
 
No redbull were advised that the sensor with the applied offset was showing greater than 100kg/h fuel flow. The technical directive which was put in place to adjust the fuel flow readings to what was thought to be the correct amount of fuel flow is what the FIA were using to inform redbull. Redbull were advising the FIA that the sensor/offset (technical directive not rule) were wrong.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/2...ull-are-extremely-confident-of-winning-appeal

Just to clear things up I am not a redbull fan boy chasing a team, I am a Hamilton fan and by default Mercedes first and foremost, so this isn't about wanting my team to win, I just feel that redbull on this occasion are innocent until catergorically proven guilty. If the FIA are having to apply offsets to their homologated sensor then I am happy to doubt its accuracy.

If redbull are proved to be at fault then they get what they deserve but I am very dubious over the FIA handing out offsets for inaccurate sensors and then trying to pass judgement on that, it's like some bloke counting how many seconds each car takes to do a lap in qualifying (extreme case).
 
But you seem to ignore, how can a team say they are right. Despite it not saying in the tech regal. It's the only way that is known to actually measure it.

Or shall we just allow teams to go, yep only put 100kilos of fuel in, yep car is only x-mm wide. No no you don't need to measure it, as I don't believe your tape is calibrated the same as ours.

What's wrong with offsets? Sensors are never 100%, that's why you calibrate them and set an offset.

However I bet fia wish they did specify it in the regs.

Can tech regs be updated? Could rbr get away with it, but going forward they have to use the sensor. This weekends going will be interesting on what all the teams do.
 
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As has been covered, the teams will have alternative ways to monitor fuel flow. Christian Horner says in the linked interview that they were measuring fuel flow via the fuel rail, it was consistent the whole weekend where the sensor was not. (Sensors by the way redbull were asked by the FIA to change after Friday sessions then change back again for qualifying, due to inconsistencies with the sensors)

There's nothing wrong with an offset everyone agrees with it and that it is correct, on this occasion redbull clearly didn't agree with it. So in this case it's fair for the FIA to say tough??
From what I have understood from this is the offsets on the sensors were different amongst the teams, now I could be wrong here but if I am not then the FIA clearly arnt applying the same adjustments to the whole field so again it adds more reason to why redbull would/could question it.

As far as I am aware the tech regs can only be adjusted by the world motor sport council with unanimous decision from all the teams. RBR could get away with it and the rules be changed but then if RBR are found not guilty then how much doubt is it going to throw up about the accuracy of the sensors and how the FIA can unforced the fuel flow reg?
 
They have alternatives means of testing lots of things, but it's pointless if its not fia calibrated. Otherwise again, can they use their own tape measures and ignore fia scruteenering. Unless it's calibrated by the same people and in the same way as the rest of the team, their measurements are pointless.


If they win, the rule might as well be banned fort this year. Which they won't want as it's the way to limit BHP and silly engine maps that could be turned on for a few seconds on the exit of a corner.
 
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