Motorsport Off Topic Thread

413x · 3 Sep 2022 at 11:20

Mr Jack said:
Reading more about this it really does seem like Otmar and Alpine behaved very badly towards Piastri. The reports of the legal department struggling also don't point to a functional team.

I can see Otmar losing his job over this.

Yeah with everything that has come out it firmly falls on alpine.

Mclaren are sitting really pretty for next year. Could well challenge the big boys with a good car.

Emlyn_Dewar · 3 Sep 2022 at 11:21

The level of incompetence for Alpine to find themselves in this situation. You love to see it.

I disagreed with the views in the media that Piastri should have showed some loyalty. A contract is a contract, and he's got to work for what's right in his career.

hudson86 · 3 Sep 2022 at 11:33

Mr Jack said:
Reading more about this it really does seem like Otmar and Alpine behaved very badly towards Piastri. The reports of the legal department struggling also don't point to a functional team.

I can see Otmar losing his job over this.

Maybe these are the sort of games the other F1 teams play behind the scenes, maybe not. I was kind of in the Piastri owes them some loyalty camp before reading this, seems a shoddy and embarrasing way to go about it.

Mr Jack · 3 Sep 2022 at 12:02

hudson86 said:
Maybe these are the sort of games the other F1 teams play behind the scenes, maybe not.

I'm sure all sorts of ugly politics go on. Otmar's fault isn't following those politics, it's bringing the dirty laundry into public and losing Alonso and Piastri as a result. Piastri should have been Alpine's big hope for the future, the driver they built the team around as they tried to launch a title challenge, instead he's wasted millions and caused a PR disaster.

413x · 3 Sep 2022 at 12:32

Alpine were hedging. Unfortunately they didn't have a proper contract for piastri. So they lost both prize assets and left with the dregs.

Bit of sympathy for piastri. As he's got so much hassle from this, good the whole story is out now.

Terminal_Boy · 3 Sep 2022 at 12:54

F1 Driver Academy schemes have always served a second purpose : keeping talent out of competitors cars.

Alpine wanted to keep Piastri on the sidelines until Alonso retired/left at the end of 2023, but they messed up on the contract and left Piastri a way out which he took. Fair play to the lad.

Mark Webber seems to have pulled off some shenanigans that would make Machiavelli smile.

MissChief · 3 Sep 2022 at 12:59

I believe Piastri’s deal with Alpine was signed before Otmar joined Alpine, but he’s hardly covered himself or Alpine in glory either.

wonko · 3 Sep 2022 at 13:31

From what I've read about it, there was no 2023 contract between Alpine and Piastri.
I'm finding Otmar's repeated comments about Piastri's integrity more than a bit rich when Alpine made promises about race seats and then delayed producing a contract for agreement. It's no wonder if Piastri and Webber thought that Alpine were deliberately delaying and using Piastri as the 'fallback'.

SKILL · 3 Sep 2022 at 13:41

I'm not sure Otmar really had much influence on it for the most point, seems by all accounts the whole thing was well and truly mishandled before he joined, however whether he was told Alpine/Piastri had a contract or not the comments he made looks really bad now, like he should actively and publicly apologise kinda bad...

After the Post-Hungary stuff and the rumours that followed I think I followed the hype and 'blamed' Alonso/Piastri for seemingly having conspired to screw over Alpine but obviously with what has now come to light Alpine look utterly terrible on all counts.

JRS · 3 Sep 2022 at 13:51

Terminal_Boy said:
Mark Webber seems to have pulled off some shenanigans that would make Machiavelli smile.

Those years with Flav as his agent must have rubbed off

Mr Jack · 3 Sep 2022 at 16:58

SKILL said:
I'm not sure Otmar really had much influence on it for the most point, seems by all accounts the whole thing was well and truly mishandled before he joined, however whether he was told Alpine/Piastri had a contract or not the comments he made looks really bad now, like he should actively and publicly apologise kinda bad...

Yeah, there have been suggestions that Otmar was being left in the dark here: perhaps the total incompetence came from higher up and just splatted on Otmar's shoulders. But, as you say, there is no excuse for Otmar's subsequent comments. He should apologise.

Scam · 3 Sep 2022 at 19:17

During FP Button was asked if Piastri’s infamous tweet would damage his reputation and he says words to the effect of “not that tweet specifically, but the fact that Alpine had invested so much, and put so much money into him and he turned around and took a better offer- is what could harm his reputation”.

Personally I totally agree. Ignore all the nonsense about contracts etc. If you joined a company in any other industry, got them to pay for a whole bunch of training courses over a couple of years, bettered yourself through their financing, then upped and left for a better job without asking them to make you an offer in response.. Well they’d have every right to be pee’d off.

Mr Jack · 3 Sep 2022 at 19:21

Eh, if he performs no-one will care. McLaren took Alonso back FFS.

Also, this:

Scam said:
then upped and left for a better job without asking them to make you an offer in response.

This didn't happen.

MissChief · 3 Sep 2022 at 19:55

Alpine wanted Alonso and Piastri and Webberknew this and Piastri was always their back up. Imagine knowing you were second choice for months? Wouldn’t you want to go somewhere you’re actually wanted?

Scam · 3 Sep 2022 at 22:07

Mr Jack said:
This didn't happen.

Did Piastri tell Alpine he’d gotten a better offer? They may have reassessed keeping Alonso on. Again, in any other industry you might say “I’m not happy, I’ve been offered this. Can you match it”

Mr Jack said:
Eh, if he performs no-one will care.

Well I’m only going on what Button said - and he seemed to think it would have damaged his rep.

chrismscotland · 3 Sep 2022 at 22:15

Scam said:
Did Piastri tell Alpine he’d gotten a better offer? They may have reassessed keeping Alonso on. Again, in any other industry you might say “I’m not happy, I’ve been offered this. Can you match it”

Well I’m only going on what Button said - and he seemed to think it would have damaged his rep.

Button should know considering he's the last driver to have really been through a similar situation, didn't do him any harm, despite wanting out he was forced to stay at BAR, had a great period culminating in the WC win with essentially the same team in Brawn.
If Piastri is fast enough then no-one will give a toss about this in a years time, except maybe Alpine!

Emlyn_Dewar · 4 Sep 2022 at 06:20

Scam said:
During FP Button was asked if Piastri’s infamous tweet would damage his reputation and he says words to the effect of “not that tweet specifically, but the fact that Alpine had invested so much, and put so much money into him and he turned around and took a better offer- is what could harm his reputation”.

Personally I totally agree. Ignore all the nonsense about contracts etc. If you joined a company in any other industry, got them to pay for a whole bunch of training courses over a couple of years, bettered yourself through their financing, then upped and left for a better job without asking them to make you an offer in response.. Well they’d have every right to be pee’d off.

In any other industry the company would have clauses in said contract to avoid this happening, and you wouldn't ignore the contract. Piastri made the right choice and Alpine are perfectly entitled to be pee'd off, but they need to be pee'd off at the right people. Piastri is not one of those people.
Poor helpless Alpine, becoming the victim of their own complacence. Next time round, they'll remember the cars don't drive themselves.

Mr Jack · 4 Sep 2022 at 08:15

Scam said:
Did Piastri tell Alpine he’d gotten a better offer? They may have reassessed keeping Alonso on. Again, in any other industry you might say “I’m not happy, I’ve been offered this. Can you match it”

Alpine were aware Piastri was talking to other teams, they did not offer him a drive but instead continued to prefer Alonso. They were informed that he was leaving and continued to prefer Alonso. I don't know whether there was an actual "match it or..." moment but Alpine were clear at all points that they were going with Alonso not Piastri.

It was only after they had lost Alonso that they panicked and tried to strong arm Piastri out of the deal he had signed.

And, remember, this all happened after they'd already screwed Piastri over and left him twiddling him thumbs on the sidelines for a year.

413x · 4 Sep 2022 at 08:17

If they hadn't stupidly signed Ocon for years they probably could have had alonso and piastri and used Ocon as backup.

What a dream that would be

I'm off the opinion this is alpines fault but it isn't great that piastri did this. And to their main rival too.

If alpine don't have a better car than mclaren next year they'll be 5th at best with the drivers they are left with.

Ocon is mediocre at best. And I don't get the long term signing

Emlyn_Dewar · 4 Sep 2022 at 09:05

I'm pretty harsh with my thoughts on Alpine when it comes to their driver management at the moment, from the comfort of my armchair... You've got to hand it to them when it comes to their technical side though. They're pulling away comfortably from Mclaren in the points.
It's a shame they couldn't have had the Alonso/Piastri lineup for next year as, right now, they're definitely the better team to be in.