Then I want reparations for the pain that was Merc's dominance. Anyone got nipple pics from Toto?
Motorsport Off Topic Thread
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Whilst everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we have heard nothing from any of the governing bodies of F1 to suggest they are unhappy with how the investigation was conducted.
As far a s I understand it was Red Bull headquarters, not Red Bull F1, once having had the allegations presented to them immediately asked for the investigation to be conducted by a INDEPENDANT barrister.
What is suggested is then bringing into question the barrister's credentials to conduct a INDEPENDANT investigation with zero evidence.
So not only is Horner being demonised the INDEPENDANT barrister seems to be also.
Until, putting personal opinions aside, we have any evidence to the contrary then there is no argument that the investigation to be other than conducted in a proper and correct manner.
As far as as these leaks are concerned, give me a break, if anyone really believes that any unsubstantiated social media post is the gods truth, then I feel sorry for them.
Social media is far worse than any red top at producing lies and SM is the mouthpiece for any warped individual to have their say it seems. Trump, Musk etc. etc. exploit it very well. Someone who wishes to settle a score, even someone who has a very negative opinion of Red Bull F1 and Horner.
It's all a popcorn moment, but we live in a sad world it seems...
Apologies for the link in my last post, @Armageus.
Yeah. To some extent, of course Red Bull are going to be choosing who investigates, but they're not really doing anything to give the appearance that it has been a truly independent process, especially with all the rumours of them being picked by the Thai owners to get their desired outcome swirling. There are companies that specialise in conducting these kind of investigations, and a reputation for doing them rigorously, if they wanted to avoid the appearance of shenanigans then appointing such a company would be an easy way of doing it - wouldn't have satisfied everyone, I'm sure, but reasonable people would have accepted it. As it is, we don't even know who the "independent specialist barrister" involved was. Maybe they're a solid pick, but if they don't say we don't know and it gives the appearance that this may have been more of a operation to protect Horner than a serious impartial assessment of his involvement.
And, of course, in the world of corporate reputations, appearances are what matters.
Yeah. To some extent, of course Red Bull are going to be choosing who investigates, but they're not really doing anything to give the appearance that it has been a truly independent process, especially with all the rumours of them being picked by the Thai owners to get their desired outcome swirling. There are companies that specialise in conducting these kind of investigations, and a reputation for doing them rigorously, if they wanted to avoid the appearance of shenanigans then appointing such a company would be an easy way of doing it - wouldn't have satisfied everyone, I'm sure, but reasonable people would have accepted it. As it is, we don't even know who the "independent specialist barrister" involved was. Maybe they're a solid pick, but if they don't say we don't know and it gives the appearance that this may have been more of a operation to protect Horner than a serious impartial assessment of his involvement.
And, of course, in the world of corporate reputations, appearances are what matters.
I don't doubt for one moment it would be proper to release the name of the barrister who conducted the independent investigation. After all with all of the vitriol towards Horner that person also would have also been targeted as well. So they are correct in not revealing their name.
Unfortunately these days it seems that anyone with a warped mind, or an axe to grind, can send anything and even death threats on social media, forums etc. directed towards an individual who is just doing their job.
I didn't mention the governing bodies of F1 so why bring them up
But I guess, while it was an internal investigation, they wouldn't care as it's nothing to do with them. There's a chance they might now with the leak due to the attention it's bringing to F1 as a whole but I'd imagine they'll stick to "it's an internal matter for Red Bull".I CAN USE CAPS TOO!
But to answer in kind, I know it was Red Bull HQ, not Red Bull F1, that hired the independent investigator however it's still Red Bull hiring someone to investigate Red Bull. Do you not think that leads to the POSSIBILITY of it not being truly independent? Again, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying the Barrister IS dodgy just that there's a POTENTIAL conflict of interest and it's worth checking that the Barrister was truly independent.
Is that not exactly how these things work? Someone thinks hmmmm I wonder if that Barrister was actually independent? I'll have a look to see if there's any proof of it (side note, that proof can be for or against). You don't just stumble on to evidence of something without first looking for it. You bring up red tops, the only reason you know they're rubbish is because you read them and looked in to their stories to find they're rubbish. If you question the narrative of red tops, what's wrong with questioning the narrative of Red Bull story of hiring an independent Barrister?
Again, I'm not saying there is anything dodgy or that the Barrister should be demonised for not being independent because at this time it would appear they were. I'm only saying that it's right to check IF they actually were independent rather than take Red Bull's word for it.
That's just as bad but the other way. You can't just totally ignore the leaked messages as unsubstantiated as that would forever stop you from substantiating them.
Soldato
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Here's a thorough write up from Reddit regarding the internal situation in Red Bull following the passing of Mateschitz - worth a read:
Don
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ALLEGEDLY, Horner was abusing the situation the moment he entered into a relationship with a subordinate, AND did not declare it to HR.
I find it almost impossible that is not written into his contract, given his seniority.
Which is why I am confused by the results of the investigation. Perhaps they ruled it was not a "relationship?" through some legal interpretation of the term, or simply that what we are seeing is not an accurate representation of the evidence used in the investigation (or fake)....
When these, so labelled 'leaked messages, are substantiated as being true then we can believe them. But as of yet there is zero evidence that they are no more than just petty gossip at best. But what is obvious is that there is someone who cannot tolerate the fact that Horner has been exonerated and blameless.I didn't mention the governing bodies of F1 so why bring them up
I CAN USE CAPS TOO!
But to answer in kind, I know it was Red Bull HQ, not Red Bull F1, that hired the independent investigator however it's still Red Bull hiring someone to investigate Red Bull. Do you not think that leads to the POSSIBILITY of it not being truly independent? Again, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying the Barrister IS dodgy just that there's a POTENTIAL conflict of interest and it's worth checking that the Barrister was truly independent.
Is that not exactly how these things work? Someone thinks hmmmm I wonder if that Barrister was actually independent? I'll have a look to see if there's any proof of it (side note, that proof can be for or against). You don't just stumble on to evidence of something without first looking for it. You bring up red tops, the only reason you know they're rubbish is because you read them and looked in to their stories to find they're rubbish. If you question the narrative of red tops, what's wrong with questioning the narrative of Red Bull story of hiring an independent Barrister?
Again, I'm not saying there is anything dodgy or that the Barrister should be demonised for not being independent because at this time it would appear they were. I'm only saying that it's right to check IF they actually were independent rather than take Red Bull's word for it.
That's just as bad but the other way. You can't just totally ignore the leaked messages as unsubstantiated as that would forever stop you from substantiating them.
If you wish to think they come from a reliable source that is entirely to you but you seem to be stating one thing with the barrister and another with these, possibly faked, posts, and contradicting yourself.
As stated, all a popcorn moment and about as much interest as watching paint dry.
Exactly. This power dynamic is exactly why people like Weinstein got away with it for so long. And it’s exactly why companies will not allow it in this day and age.
I’d say I’m surprised that RB fans are defending this type of alleged behaviour - but I’m just not surprised at all actually. The RB fans’ responses were already becoming Trumpian before this kicked off properly, and I called it out then. Now it’s just lols.
It seems to me rather more likely than not that the leaked messages are real. If they were faked, then surely Red Bull would release a statement saying something like "we are aware of a large number of images circulating that are claimed to have come from the investigation of Horner, we are able to confirm that these images do not match the information given to us our investigation". The discussion about these messages is doing ongoing damage to their brand; if they knew them to be fake then this would be a simple way to cut them off at the pass.
Don
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I am hearing on x that legal threats are being made to UK media outlets that the alleged leaks are not to be published or discussed or face legal action.
This is interesting
This is interesting
They aren't fake
Exactly, the more it drags on the worse it gets, the internal enquiry nonsense can now presumably be chucked in the bin.
What legal action can they take against outlets that simply say "we got sent this, make of it what you will" ?
this thread escalated, I went to see Bill Bailey gig last night and when I came here it looks like I'm reading a Love Island thread 
Personally I don't really care one way or another, as long as there wasn't anything illegal/ against companies policies then it's up to him and RB to decide.
Personally I don't really care one way or another, as long as there wasn't anything illegal/ against companies policies then it's up to him and RB to decide.
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Have read it all now, if true, extremely embarrassing and stupid.
Feel sorry for children etc involved who may be hurt by fallings out and also for anyone in the team who likely will be impacted by it all. After all, there’s thousands of people working tirelessly to build these cars who now have this weighing over them.
Obviously the latter part most on here don’t care about, as they’re solely focussed on hating team X of person Y and forget the “little” people behind it all working away.
Feel sorry for children etc involved who may be hurt by fallings out and also for anyone in the team who likely will be impacted by it all. After all, there’s thousands of people working tirelessly to build these cars who now have this weighing over them.
Obviously the latter part most on here don’t care about, as they’re solely focussed on hating team X of person Y and forget the “little” people behind it all working away.
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I don’t think any outlets worth their salt would be interested in printing the messages/pictures. They can just refer to messages leaked that allege to be between Horner etc. Nobody can stop them doing that surely.
You would have thought that if he was going to have an affair, he would have at least have gone elsewhere and not done it with a low ranking employee of his. I guess its easier to get away with as you'd naturally be with them and can arrange for hotel rooms next to each other etc, but as the saying goes "dont **** where you eat".