Commissario
Perhaps it only worked in conjunction with the unequal braking force on either side of the car which they absolutely didn't have either.
Motorsport Off Topic Thread
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
There are youtube vids where people have completely misunderstood this to mean that Redbuill have already been found to have been cheating by abusing this.
I think even Lewis in one of his statements about it, didn't fully understand what was going on because he in some ways defended Redbull, saying they have been the most innovitive and other teams should try to innovate as well. I think he thought that it was another "grey" area, as opposed ot the very black and white area it would be to breach parc ferme rules.
So yeah, a lot of Chinese whispers at the moment I think.
I think even Lewis in one of his statements about it, didn't fully understand what was going on because he in some ways defended Redbull, saying they have been the most innovitive and other teams should try to innovate as well. I think he thought that it was another "grey" area, as opposed ot the very black and white area it would be to breach parc ferme rules.
So yeah, a lot of Chinese whispers at the moment I think.
If RB absolutely did not abuse this between quali and the race then why is it even being discussed? Other teams can change their ride height as well... why did RB need to "agree(d) a plan going forward." with the FIA?
I think they must have caught wind of someone going to press about their system, and to try to manage it they went to the FIA first to claim that they had already been in talks about it etc. It's all a bit fishy though.
It was raised by other teams, which they have the right to do. It's a win-win for them as it strips an advantage from RB.
There's no evidence that they used it to cheat.
Soldato
If RB absolutely did not abuse this between quali and the race then why is it even being discussed? Other teams can change their ride height as well... why did RB need to "agree(d) a plan going forward." with the FIA?
Because there is a lot of dislike for RB.
Well like the Ferrari situation, we don't really know or may ever know what the FIA have said to Redbull about it, thats kind of where all the guessing is coming from. Though removing it without any argument makes it look sus.Eh? The detail is apparently all there in the docs they have to disclose to the FIA, if they've modified it to make it look like it's harder to access/adjust in parc ferme then the FIA just go back a few versions and see that surely?
Soldato
All the teams have the ability to adjust the 'Bib' and they do this in practices, it is just that Red Bull were using a different method to others, thus all they were required to do was assure the FIA that their method was sealed so it couldn't be adjusted under parc ferme rules.
Whilst it was easier to adjust it involved removal of some cockpit components which would have come to the attention of the scrutineers, or other teams, anyway.
Just the FIA closing off a possible loophole but no cheating was involved.
Whilst it was easier to adjust it involved removal of some cockpit components which would have come to the attention of the scrutineers, or other teams, anyway.
Just the FIA closing off a possible loophole but no cheating was involved.
Last edited:
No cheating was or can be proven. Doesn't mean it did not take place for potentially years having this different system in place.
Soldato
Unfortunately, in this case, there has been no cheating and none has taken place, it just can't with the system Red Bull had as the scrutineers, and other teams, would have easily noticed components being removed and asking Red Bull why they need to. Under parc ferme conditions a team isn't permitted to just take bits off their cars without justification. They have several scrutineers watching and camera's on the car at all times. All that has occurred is that the FIA have closed down a loophole to prevent any. Red Bull's method of adjusting the bib was not illegal under any rule, just different.
I guess some will always play the 'devil's advocate' game but first there needs to be proof of any, not guesswork.
Don
Because other teams have complained that it exists, even though it's within the rules and extremely unlikely that it could be manipulated.If RB absolutely did not abuse this between quali and the race then why is it even being discussed? Other teams can change their ride height as well... why did RB need to "agree(d) a plan going forward." with the FIA?
As a result the FIA have changed their procedures to cover this and other unlikely manipulation of front bib clearance.
It hasn't been removed without argument. The FIA have changed their procedures to cover this (and other possible manipulations).
Crash.net said:
8 key questions answered about Red Bull car controversy at US Grand Prix
Explaining everything we know about Red Bull 'bib' furore in Texas
www.crash.net
EDIT:
So from the above - this could be as simple as a Seal being fitted to every teams Front Bib at the height set when entering Parc Ferme conditions.
Last edited:
Caporegime
The details of this system were in the technical documents they shared with other teams. It was not some sneaky thing they did, it was right there in the open.
Yes we don't know what they have said to Red bull, however from my very limited reading in this case the scenario is a lot more open. It's an easier (note 'easier' does not have to equal 'easy to hide') method to access and adjust something they're allowed to adjust in practice. Once quali comes around they have to leave the whole car as it was setup. Other teams have complained it might be easier to hide so FIA have looked into it.
The update seems to be explicitly stating that it specifically can not be changed once quali starts, rather than being encompassed in the the whole car must be left as is piece for the avoidance of doubt.
That's not the point and was never disputed. Of course they submitted it.
Caporegime
So, how was it "potentially for years" when it's documented in the open?
This is a nothing burger. A technical tightening of the rules, nothing more.
Soldato
The fact is all teams can adjust there 'bibs', and have been able to do it for years. However it is quite complex to do and intrusive, the only difference is that Red Bull have designed a simpler method to do so, presented that in the specs they share with the FIA and all the other teams.
All that's taken place now is the FIA have discussed this method with Red Bul, and both have agreed to changes so as they can't be accused of cheating.
I'm sure other teams will now be hastily modifying their bib adjustment method to match Red Bull's as it seem they've been quite innovative.
I'm not sure I understand your question. The system they could have been using for years is what I was saying. I'm not sure how documenting it affects the length of time it's been in use. It doesn't?
Yes it's tightening to prevent any possible breach in the future. The fact they have had to do it suggests it is something that could be easily abused.
Do you think? An entire change to the cockpit area this late in the season to accommodate slightly quicker bib adjustment just for during practice when they have a good amount of time anyway?
Caporegime
It means that, if there was any possibility of abuse, it would have been detected - because that's what these documents are for and the teams all study them closely. The idea that some shady thing has been going on for "potentially years" is a complete invention. The reality is that there is no a single shred of evidence of any wrong-doing on Red Bull's part here.