MP Jo Cox murdered in West Yorkshire [Thread title edited]

StriderX · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:48

asim18 said:
Me? It's already defined, these words are literally in the dictionary lol.

Terror = Extreme fear

Terrorism = the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

This man killed her to instill extreme fear into ALL people who are Pro EU. He didn't literally think killing one MP is going to immediately put Britain first and get us out of the EU just like that, his act was supposed to instil fear and terror into all other pro EU MPs. Something a terrorist does by definition.

Parliament said:
1 Terrorism: interpretation.

(1)In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—

(a)the action falls within subsection (2), Alright...

(b)the use or threat is designed to influence the government [F1or an international governmental organisation] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and Vague

(c)the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [F2, racial] or ideological cause. Fair enough.

(2)Action falls within this subsection if it—

(a)involves serious violence against a person, Fine

(b)involves serious damage to property, Fine

(c)endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action, Awkward, can be vague

(d)creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or Vague

(e)is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system. Ultra vague...

(3)The use or threat of action falling within subsection (2) which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism whether or not subsection (1)(b) is satisfied.

(4)In this section—

(a)“action” includes action outside the United Kingdom,

(b)a reference to any person or to property is a reference to any person, or to property, wherever situated,

(c)a reference to the public includes a reference to the public of a country other than the United Kingdom, and

(d)“the government” means the government of the United Kingdom, of a Part of the United Kingdom or of a country other than the United Kingdom.

(5)In this Act a reference to action taken for the purposes of terrorism includes a reference to action taken for the benefit of a proscribed organisation.

Danthus · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:49

stewski said:
A lot of people who have been less reserved on other threads have suggested deep reservations about witness statements etc, I wonder why that might be?

Because one of the witnesses isn't sure what he heard?

stewski · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:49

n111ck said:
They had a banner in court?!

Where on earth did I suggest that, you are the one wriggling out of your own statement that he pledged allegiance, do you want to retract it or something?

Dis86 · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:49

asim18 said:
Me? It's already defined, these words are literally in the dictionary lol.

Terror = Extreme fear

Terrorism = the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

And here you trip up again Asim, the trouble is terrorism actually has no clear definition. The legal definition of terrorism in the UK for example is nothing like you've actually said, go read the terrorism act of 2000.

The OED version of it also differs significantly from the AMERICAN definition you've posted.

"The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims:".

stewski · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:50

OldCoals said:
Because one of the witnesses isn't sure what he heard?

Mr Jack posted a number of media outlets reporting multiple witnesses earlier in the thread are they all unreliable?

n111ck · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:51

stewski said:
Where on earth did I suggest that, you are the one wriggling out of your own statement that he pledged allegiance, do you want to retract it or something?

I said he pledged allegiance in court this morning - you said he had a banner but I'm surprised that that's allowed.

Danthus · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:53

stewski said:
Mr Jack posted a number of media outlets reporting multiple witnesses earlier in the thread are they all unreliable?

Did he shout......

"Britain First"

"Britain first"

"Put Britain first"

stewski · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:54

n111ck said:
I said he pledged allegiance in court this morning - you said he had a banner but I'm surprised that that's allowed.

So in your eyes he has pledged allegiance?
That's a big swing in opinion from you.

But do keep posting the contextually nonsense arguments about in court out of court banners, it's amusing

asim18 · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:54

Dis86 said:
And here you trip up again Asim, the trouble is terrorism actually has no clear definition. The legal definition of terrorism in the UK for example is nothing like you've actually said, go read the terrorism act of 2000.

The OED version of it also differs significantly from the AMERICAN definition you've posted.

"The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims:".

Seriously you're getting wound up in semantics?

Fine you can reserve the word "terrorist" for cases which fit your personal agenda. Do you really think this man is a plain murderer even though he had political motivations??? I mean he didn't kill his wife for cheating on him or something? He killed an MP because she was Pro EU. But fine, you can keep your definition of the word "terrorist" reserved for whatever you want.

In my opinion this man had a politically motivated reason for whatever he did, and is therefore a terrorist.

stewski · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:55

OldCoals said:
Did he shout......

"Britain First"

"Britain first"

"Put Britain first"

So weak a distinction, it is not real.
I'm calling it that he is a right wing murderer of a left wing MP, do you have a problem with that?

Danthus · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:55

He was a terrorist, it is pretty clear it was politically motivated.

Danthus · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:56

stewski said:
So weak a distinction, it is not real.
I'm calling it that he is a right wing murderer of a left wing MP, do you have a problem with that?

OldCoals said:
He was a terrorist, it is pretty clear it was politically motivated.

Clearly not.

Dis86 · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:56

stewski said:
Have you got stats on that?

Seem to be a few supporters here,

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-are-ethnic-minorities-supporting-ukip-9347369.html

and 60k here! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...losing-the-ethnic-minority-vote-10274051.html

Struggling to find any actual demographics in terms of race of voters going for parties in the last election though. Only age and education is paraded about :confused:

- that's for anyone btw, not just UKIP. Maybe politics in this country is racially blind after all?

asim18 · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:56

double post delete

Dis86 · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:57

asim18 said:
Seriously you're getting wound up in semantics?

Fine you can reserve the word "terrorist" for cases which fit your personal agenda. Do you really think this man is a plain murderer even though he had political motivations??? I mean he didn't kill his wife for cheating on him or something? He killed an MP because she was Pro EU. But fine, you can keep your definition of the word "terrorist" reserved for whatever you want.

In my opinion this man had a politically motivated reason for whatever he did, and is therefore a terrorist.

Nothing to do with my agenda. It's to do with the very legal and lingual definitions of the word - the ones that clearly don't fit your agenda!

n111ck · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:58

stewski said:
So in your eyes he has pledged allegiance?
That's a big swing in opinion from you.

But do keep posting the contextually nonsense arguments about in cort out of court banners, it's amusing

You mentioned court banners not me - as I said I'm surprised publicity material is allowed.

He's clearly a very dangerous terrorist but is he the leader or just part of a cell?

stewski · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:58

robfosters said:
Agree, UKIP are nothing like the others. If so, how would they have so many black and asian supporters?

Black and Asian <> Ethnic

StriderX · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:59

asim18 said:
Seriously you're getting wound up in semantics?

Fine you can reserve the word "terrorist" for cases which fit your personal agenda.

In my opinion this man had a politically motivated reason for whatever he did, and is a terrorist.

Getting wound up in semantics is literally THE LAW, and is used to justify literally everything a government does.

Two words :- Unlawful Belligerents

Open letter from Reporters Without Borders calls on US defense secretary to revise manual containing ‘disturbing’ language on treating reporters like spies

asim18 · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:59

Dis86 said:
Nothing to do with my agenda. It's to do with the very legal and lingual definitions of the word - the ones that clearly don't fit your agenda!

So what do you think the motivation was?

Do you really think he murdered her simply because he was angry at Jo specifically? That's disgraceful.

Do you really think it wasn't purely because of her political stance? Despite the fact he has verbally confirmed this in court.

Danthus · 18 Jun 2016 at 22:59

Oh and part of the reason he was transferred to London was becasue he is being processed according to protocol used for terrorism cases.