MP Jo Cox murdered in West Yorkshire [Thread title edited]

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

It's funny how you're always there in the threads where a muslim has committed an atrocity in the name of their religion saying it's not because of their religious or ideological beliefs yet here you are trying to condemn this man based upon ones he (probably!) holds.

You clearly struggle with paying attention to detail. I have never said that religion hasn't played a part in killers motivations, what I DID and do say is it's wrong to tar EVERYONE in a particular religion with the actions of a group of extremists. i.e not all Muslims are murderers and not all Catholics are pedos ?? get it??
I'm an anti-theist for gods sake I despise religion, however I hate bigots and racists FAR more!!

 

[asim18]

No, you're again missing the point in your quest to brand someone other than a brown skinned muslim bloke as a terrorist.
He POSSIBLY feels that she has betrayed those she was VOTED IN BY to REPRESENT AND HELP by disappearing half way around the world to give aid to people we'll never even see whilst not giving them the help they clearly need here.

It's funny how you're always there in the threads where a muslim has committed an atrocity in the name of their religion saying it's not because of their religious or ideological beliefs yet here you are trying to condemn this man based upon ones he (probably!) holds.

So are you saying that for someone to be a Terrorist, they must be motivated by religion?

And that someone using terror to push his political views can't ever be a terrorist because A) he's pushing political views and not a religion, and B) because he's not Brown and/or Muslim?

 

[Dis86]

Ok, let's look at the total evidence:

- Possible mental health issues
- Possible cuts which impact treatment
- Local MP that helps people in other countries
- Local MP that supports remaining in the EU
- Possible shouts of 'Britain First' or 'put Britain first' at time of attack
- Photo on Britain First website holding the banner
- States "death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when asked his name in court

What part of that combined information leads you to believe it is not a politically motivated attack with links to extreme right wing?

You're being slightly disingenuous with some parts.

Definite cuts which impact treatment. We know these cuts happened. It's widely accepted that the state of mental health care in this country is a disgrace. That gives 4 of your points motives of a personal grievance against her. Now given what Mattyg and links to the reddit thread have shown we have a guy who is mentally ill, is easily led, has a brother with links and involvements in far right groups.
Can you see now how we have someone being lead/pushed down a path that they do not fully understand?

 

[Dis86]

So are you saying that for someone to be a Terrorist, they must be motivated by religion?

No Asim, I'm not. Please show me where I've said that (i'll give you a hint, I didn't.) They must be motivated by a cause. Whether that be religious, political or ideological that they hope to enact by causing a people or state to recognise it through acts of violence or disruption.

It's for that reason that not all mass-murderers are terrorists. Not all people that hack in to government or military computer systems are terrorists (yet we see them get prosecuted as such in this country and places like the US).

 

[asim18]

Can you see now how we have someone being lead/pushed down a path that they do not fully understand?

So are you saying when a typical terrorist you find in the media, blows up a dozen innocent people along with himself because he understands he will wake up in heaven with several dozen virgins at his disposal, is actually right in his understanding that he will wake up in heaven with several dozen virgins at his disposal? Double standards ahoy!

Or do you also think these "terrorists" don't fully understand that god doesn't actually exist and that the virgins are simply there to entice their sexual desires?

 

[StriderX]

So are you saying when a typical terrorist you find in the media, blows up a dozen people along with himself because he understands he will wake up in heaven with several dozen virgins at his disposal, is actually right in his understanding that he will wake up in heaven with several dozen virgins at his disposal? Double standards ahoy!

Or do you also think these "terrorists" don't fully understand that god doesn't actually exist and that the virgins are simply there to entice their sexual desires?

Or maybe, like most of these acts... their families are threatened, but thats not relevant to this.

 

[toshj]

Can you see now how we have someone being lead/pushed down a path that they do not fully understand?

Even if that was the cause - and the sole cause at that - it doesn't negate this being an act of terrorism.

I imagine Occam's Razor applies in this instance - mentally ill man holds longatanding far right and extremist views, easily led astray, finally loses the plot and kills an innocent in the name of fear mongering whilst shouting and ranting xenophobic and/or racist rhetoric. There doesn't seem to be an awful lot of hidden clues here.

 

[Dis86]

So are you saying when a typical terrorist you find in the media, blows up a dozen innocent people along with himself because he understands he will wake up in heaven with several dozen virgins at his disposal, is actually right in his understanding that he will wake up in heaven with several dozen virgins at his disposal? Double standards ahoy!

Or do you also think these "terrorists" don't fully understand that god doesn't actually exist and that the virgins are simply there to entice their sexual desires?

Hey, I don't know if he will or not. Do you?
Heck we might have it all wrong!

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Mental illness doesn't normally make people kill others with the exception of maybe serious cases's of paranoid schizophrenia and other rare serious mental health conditions

What DOES make people kill others is when they are whipped up into a frenzy of hatred and they can no longer control their anger from what they have read, seen or heard.

The daily mail, UKIP, Britain First, EDL..etc have the blood of Jo Cox on their vile hands

 

[Six6siX]

You're being slightly disingenuous with some parts.

Definite cuts which impact treatment. We know these cuts happened.

Do we? You know what treatment he was having? What was his illness? What treatments of his got cut?

It's widely accepted that the state of mental health care in this country is a disgrace.

Yep, and? All that means at the moment is that it's a possible contributor to his state of mind.

That gives 4 of your points motives of a personal grievance against her.

No it doesn't. She could have been targeted but the motivation to target anyone was down to his extremist views.

The fact that she was high profile in the area as an MP with those views makes this a political attack especially considering it in the context of his confirmed far right extremist views. This is what you seem to be unable to do.

Now given what Mattyg and links to the reddit thread have shown we have a guy who is mentally ill, is easily led, has a brother with links and involvements in far right groups.

That just adds to the fact that the attack was politically motivated because of his extremist views that surrounded him and were part of him.

Can you see now how we have someone being lead/pushed down a path that they do not fully understand?

I think you that needs to properly reconsider the information we have available to us in full context.

He may have been pushed down a path he didn't understand but ultimately they are his actions - whether they are on behalf of someone else, they are his words and his beliefs too. That doesn't change the motivation.

 

[chief barker]

Mental illness doesn't normally make people kill others with the exception of maybe serious cases's of paranoid schizophrenia and other rare serious mental health conditions

What DOES make people kill others is when they are whipped up into a frenzy of hatred and they can no longer control their anger from what they have read, seen or heard.

The daily mail, UKIP, Britain First, EDL..etc have the blood of Jo Cox on their vile hands

Calm down fella, you're getting yourself all angry - you could hurt someone if you're not careful.

 

[RoboCod]

Wait, so me reading something that could make me angry is more likely to make me go out and kill someone than me having a mental illness? OK.

Gonna be careful what I read now! Not sure what might trigger my completely normal and not mentally ill self into a frenzy of murder.

 

[Mynight]

Gonna be careful what I read now! Not sure what might trigger my completely normal and not mentally ill self into a frenzy of murder.

If you were mentally ill would you even know it?

 

[RoboCod]

I guess it matters not because apparently any sane person can pick up a tabloid paper then be fuelled with the rage enough to go out and kill someone over it. No mental issues whatsoever.

Be very careful my friend, you're a ticking time bomb!

 

[dowie]

Mental illness doesn't normally make people kill others with the exception of maybe serious cases's of paranoid schizophrenia and other rare serious mental health conditions

What DOES make people kill others is when they are whipped up into a frenzy of hatred and they can no longer control their anger from what they have read, seen or heard.

The daily mail, UKIP, Britain First, EDL..etc have the blood of Jo Cox on their vile hands

Yet if this was an Islamist attack I wonder if you'd be so keen to blame Islam, clerics, the failure of the muslim community to integrate, the labelling of non -muslims as infidels etc...

Trying to blame UKIP, Daily Mail etc... for this is essentially the same as holding ordinary Muslims responsible for the actions of fundamentalists.

 

[Freakbro]

Trying to blame UKIP, Daily Mail etc... for this is essentially the same as holding ordinary Muslims responsible for the actions of fundamentalists.

Which happens on a virtually daily basis on these forums, generally by the same people arguing against the connection in this incident.

And if not directly responsible, they are accused of being guilty by association or having sympathies because they don't stand up and apologise for the actions of the extremist, haven't seen any moderate right wing spokesman standing up and apologising for this (and neither should they)

 

[Gilly]

More importantly I haven't seen any far right groups say anything; except for Britain first who just denied all knowledge in a video.

 

[Uther]

Her death is being used for political ends already, very sad

 

[Tunney]

Yet if this was an Islamist attack I wonder if you'd be so keen to blame Islam, clerics, the failure of the muslim community to integrate, the labelling of non -muslims as infidels etc...

Trying to blame UKIP, Daily Mail etc... for this is essentially the same as holding ordinary Muslims responsible for the actions of fundamentalists.

You seemed keen to blame Islam for the stabbing that happened at Leytonstone tube station. You called it a terrorist attack. What's changed?

 

[deuse]

Her death is being used for political ends already, very sad

Agree.

Shows how low the tory party are.