MSI's X570 Tomahawk May Become Go-To OC Board??

[Benass]

It is quite certain that they released the almost perfect x570 in response to the utter ***** low level boards they first released, they even said as much in the advertising, and indeed, asked hardware unboxed for feedback, took it onboard, and brought to market an absolutely wonderful product.
I for one am v glad they did.

And yet MSI are back in a spotlight.
Bullying small reviewer on some laptop issues.
I'm half split tomahawk or aorus elite.
But when I see MSI pr bullying and threatening for bad reviews I'm getting bad feelings.

The only way to make a better product is to take a criticism and improve upon it.
Not bully ppl to change there opinions.

 

[Destination]

Yes and looked into, it may have been the small company person doing this off their own bat, rather than the company enforcing it.
It might be true or not, either way it should certainly NOT be happening, and it is very good of the reviewer to speak out against this.
I read the whole thing, and then followed up with the reviewer and with hardware unboxed who did an interesting piece in relation to it.

 

[ScottiB]

Having worked as a marketing manager for a vendor and knowing the reviewer in question personally I can see how this has happened.

If a reviewer has a major problem with a product that you sent them you don't want the review published. Most reviewers will wait for a fix but if it's not an easy fix (i.e. might need a product recall - the fact that they took a few weeks to get back to him supports this) then the vendor might just want to take the item back and not have the review published. Aware that the reviewer in question is a small independent and makes his living from his videos offering him money so that he's not out of pocket if he does not release the review would be a sensible approach. A lot of the bigger reviewers got that way by working with vendors and not publishing problematic reviews. This is more common than anyone cares to admit. I've seen everything from certain reviewers who you know will never publish a bad review from a certain vendor (usually their top advertiser) to reviewers who write one review only to have their editor completely flip the result to make their advertising partner's product look better.

At some point every small, independent reviewer has to decide for themselves whether they want to be a vendor's friend or a public service champion. It takes diplomacy to broach his subject with a reviewer for the first time because there are still some who don't want to feel like they are selling out, but I guess someone left their diplomatic hat at home.

Unless I've missed something, I'm not sure that "bullying" is really a fair accusation.

In an attempt to reduce the chances of this happening MSI used to have a lab dedicated to hand testing every sample sent out, giving it a test report, signing it off and sealing the box before it was sent. Lord knows if that still exists but, if it does, they slipped on a stinker this time.

 

[Richdog]

Unless I've missed something, I'm not sure that "bullying" is really a fair accusation.

You must have missed something, because MSI tried to use their position of power to first bribe and then pressure a reviewer into not publishing a bad review. That is bullying.

 

[GavJL]

You must have missed something, because MSI tried to use their position of power to first bribe and then pressure a reviewer into not publishing a bad review. That is bullying.

D
iirc they also asked AMD to issue the Takedown first so it didnt look bad on them, then AMD said "Nah, we agree with him".

 

[ScottiB]

You must have missed something, because MSI tried to use their position of power to first bribe and then pressure a reviewer into not publishing a bad review. That is bullying.

Did you read my entire post or just the one line. I explained, using the benefit of experience, how this could have gone down without any bully boy tactics.

From what I've seen it's the review channel's followers more than the reviewer himself who are screaming "bully". Andrew has, to his credit, stayed level headed and professional on the situation, but I also understand MSI's frantic attempts to minimise publicity of an obvious issue. As for their "threats" of "no more review samples", review samples are often pre-production or passed through multiple reviewer's hands and can be prone to issues. In my experience, if I couldn't trust a reviewer not to publish a review damning issues that might not exist on retail models I would think twice about wanting to work with them in the future.

The closest I ever came to this situation was a graphics card review which I arranged with one of the country's biggest reviewers. I'd tested the card before it was sent so when the review was published with results that I knew were inaccurate I challenged the reviewer. I asked him to take it down, he refused...but due to the respect that we have for each other he went back and repeated the tests with a clean windows install and realised that I was correct. He immediately published an apology and correction.

MSI absolutely mishandled this issue, they should have started a dialogue with Andrew immediately and been open with him the whole time, but I also think that we likely have a "lost in translation" issue here. Neither my laptop PM or I can hazard a guess who at MSI is responsible, solely because their UK laptop marketing team seems to change staff very often and is usually populated by Taiwanese representatives.

One last thing to note, since these comments are in a motherboard thread. There's no connection between the laptop team and the component team, they are entirely separate all the way up the chain to the president of the company. So the behaviour of one local marketing bod should not really be used to tar the reputation of an entire company.

 

[Richdog]

Did you read my entire post or just the one line. I explained, using the benefit of experience, how this could have gone down without any bully boy tactics.

You wrote: "Unless I've missed something, I'm not sure that "bullying" is really a fair accusation."

That statement does not align with you saying that you were simply explaining how it could have gone down without bully boy tactics.

 

[ScottiB]

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say though. I'm not lumping a lot of blame on either party tbh, it sounds like a breakdown in communications mixed with the usual comment section over-reactions. Glad MSI apologised, hope Andrew accepts and they get past it.

Personally, I definitely wouldn't think less of MSI as a whole following this.

 

[Benass]

Bullying might be incorrect.
Today ppl have to be careful when writing words.

On a matter of bad review.: If the item was a prototype
The review er must declare it so.
And MSI should come out of the woods and agree with the faults and give public statements to investigate and fix.
I guess some on in PR did a stinker. Now every one is in hot water.

Scot. I know this is a mobo channel but if company does a stinky move in one department, it echo sss thro entire board. Thus the conversation here.

 

[tangey]

Having worked as a marketing manager for a vendor and knowing the reviewer in question personally I can see how this has happened.

At some point every small, independent reviewer has to decide for themselves whether they want to be a vendor's friend or a public service champion. It takes diplomacy to broach his subject with a reviewer for the first time because there are still some who don't want to feel like they are selling out, but I guess someone left their diplomatic hat at home.

In other words, do they want to be a reviewer known for their independence, or a paid-for influencer. To be a successful influencer for hire, the key is to ensure that most of your "followers" never realise you are one. A lot of viewers/readers have little idea as to just how much apparent independant content is acutally bought and paid for, either on an on-going basis or a gig basis.

 

[Richdog]

In other words, do they want to be a reviewer known for their independence, or a paid-for influencer. To be a successful influencer for hire, the key is to ensure that most of your "followers" never realise you are one. A lot of viewers/readers have little idea as to just how much apparent independant content is acutally bought and paid for, either on an on-going basis or a gig basis.

Just out of interest do you know any particular influencers that we would be surprised to know are influencers?

 

[ScottiB]

In other words, do they want to be a reviewer known for their independence, or a paid-for influencer. To be a successful influencer for hire, the key is to ensure that most of your "followers" never realise you are one. A lot of viewers/readers have little idea as to just how much apparent independant content is acutally bought and paid for, either on an on-going basis or a gig basis.

There is a balance and the most successful reviewers find that balance. It's possible to be unbiased and honest whilst maintaining relationships with the vendors. As I said earlier, the key is to give them feedback, give them the chance to fix issues and, if the issues are too great and the product probably needs a rework, don't publish.

The most successful review sites are those with very few scathing reviews. It's simple human nature, if we think you are being unfair with our product we won't work with you again. Heavily negative reviews might be fun to read, boost your profile and definitely pull in higher hit rates (there have been guys in the past who used this to their advantage) but in the long run they make it almost impossible to survive. What I've noticed over the years is that certain reviewers pick their targets and only slam specific brands who they don't work with and gloss over the same short-comings if they come from an advertising partner. The key for me when I read a review that I'm not entirely convinced about is to look at who is advertising on the page and since you can't trust anybody to be totally unbiased, read multiple reviews.

 

[tangey]

Just out of interest do you know any particular influencers that we would be surprised to know are influencers?

It was a general observation more than anything else. I would suggest that the average overclockers forum member is a lot more savvy than the average consumer of internet content.

What I've noticed over the years is that certain reviewers pick their targets and only slam specific brands who they don't work with and gloss over the same short-comings if they come from an advertising partner.

Which pretty much results in a similar outcome and would keep their gig employer happy.

Take my personal situation. I've been totally out of the loop regarding PC builds for well over 10 years. My last PC was a complete overclocked i7 930 system from overclockers (>10 years ago), which I upgraded for years. In the last month I decided to build a new system, and started researching. For example, I had no idea until then that these days not only is AMD competitive, but in fact the correct processor choice for many gaming systems. So I really have little idea which blogs/websites are partial to MSI or ASUS etc, and I don't think many in my situation will have the time or energy to do the required research to discover who should be discounted when they say positive/negative about company X. So for someone just "dipping in", they can really easily be led a particular way regardless of the underlying merits of the piece of kit, which of course is the entire point. And more so regarding consumer products.

Luckily for me, I knew that the forums here are the best place to do PC research. It's had to beat a pool of opinions from people that have nothing to gain (fanbois aside).

Sory, I've been partly responsible for sending the thread off in a tangent.

 

[slipd]

My board should be with me Friday and I'll build on Saturday...

Just to confirm, how many fan connectors does she have? I know there is a dedicated water pump connector that doubles as a fan interface but apart from that? I'll be using an AIO cooler btw.

Getting a bit excited now, it's only been 9 years

 

[JRS]

@slipd - pump header and CPU fan header are at the top of the board, then on the bottom edge there are four system fan headers.

 

[ScottiB]

Luckily for me, I knew that the forums here are the best place to do PC research. It's had to beat a pool of opinions from people that have nothing to gain (fanbois aside).
.

The good news for all of you is that our website, and 'most' of our staff are brand agnostic. I've been, in one role or another, a motherboard specialist for nearly twenty years now, I know the difference between a good board and a bad. If anything is particularly bad I just don't stock it. If somebody at OcUK says something is good it is, we won't be led by brand pressure or a low price.
I have no personal preference between Asus, Asrock, Gigabyte or MSI and the boards which the website say are the most popular are actually the most popular. For your interest, if I was personally buying a Z490 right now I'd be aiming at a full fat ROG but I'd probably plump for this Tomahawk if I was buying for a Ryzen.

 

[Destination]

buying intel, hehehehehe
get a tomahawk!

 

[BigBANGtheory]

have you lot seen the latest Gamers Nexus article? RIP MSI basically

 

[Richdog]

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say though. I'm not lumping a lot of blame on either party tbh, it sounds like a breakdown in communications mixed with the usual comment section over-reactions. Glad MSI apologised, hope Andrew accepts and they get past it.

Personally, I definitely wouldn't think less of MSI as a whole following this.

I would say that given your dealings with the companies you are perhaps not completely unbiased in this discussion. There is a lot of evidence to support that MSi have behaved unethically. Are they only one in the industry doing so? No, but they have done it enough to get special attention at the moment...

 

[Kelt]

Oh dear!

Gamer's Nexus:

"Unlike MSI, we have ethics!"



Fair play to him.

It's one of the reasons I pay attention to his website, more so than most of the others who proudly display adverts for their major sponsors. I just know they are likely to never give a negative review of said companies product.