Poll: National service not a bad thing?

Would twelve months National Service benefit our society and culture?

  • Yes

    Votes: 293 57.3%

  • No

    Votes: 218 42.7%
  • Total voters
    511
stewski said:
Qualifying yourself to make that judjement, then posting a thread on social media of what you think all 17 y/o should do, with little to no consideration of the range of personalities we are discussing, is virtually a definiton of narcissism imho.
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It is Physically impossible in human Being genetics :p
 
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Malevolence said:
And what about those who chose to take a career in the armed forces only to find themselves lumped with, and quite possibly putting their life in the hands of, some chavvy scrotes from a sink estate who don't want to be there? Or will this scheme of yours run parallel to the real armed forces?
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This.

But also why the heck should we force people to enlist in the armed services?

If we're talking non-military national service, then fine. I'm sure it could be a beneficial experience.

But I hope (and expect) this country will never (again) forcibly conscript people into the military. The results wouldn't be great. And it's morally bankrupt to actually demand that people partake in conflict/warfare if they didn't want to be there in the first place.
 
easyrider said:
Examples,

Let explore this more people ...

What would satisfy most?
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It's a tough one.

Talking of generalised concepts and avoiding any specific examples, the kind of work you would probably get best results with this kind of conscripted workforce, would be something that would have obvious benefits for the future.

Such that the workers could look at this and think, "by the work we are doing we are creating a better future."

But the major problem - perhaps insurmountable - is that in the modern era, what job could you engage such a conscript workforce to do, that a) would be possible without extensive training (which entails career choice), and b) wouldn't be done better by properly trained professionals?

The trouble is in our modern world not much of significance can be achieved with pure strength of numbers (aka brute force). Perhaps in the days of the Romans, sure.

But modern society requires much more finesse. Skilled labour is where it's at today.

And you can't really train a conscript workforce without either taking away their career choice from them, or only delivering the most basic of training for the most basic of tasks.

So with all that in mind, I can't see this being a good idea.
 
Efour said:
Picking litter
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I do that anyway in the country lanes around where I live - litter bugs the hell out of me.

It's a crime with no benefit. Nobody wins. Nobody gets rich by littering; nobody feels good from littering; it's just so pointless. And yet so many do it today. Grinds my damn gears :p

/derail
 
Feek said:
Older people will say yes, younger people will say no.

I know that's quite a generalisation but I'd wager it's accurate.
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You make a good point there, in my early teens I did not want to join the army as I did not like being told what to do or fancy short back and sides but now in my 50's I sort of wished there was national service as I'm now convinced I would have loved it, funny how age makes you think different
 
easyrider said:
No 17 year olds has found themselves.
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I disagree. I work with young adults all the time (I lecture at a local college and I'm involved in scouting).

I think your prejudice towards young people is doing them a massive disservice.
 
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easyrider said:
I disagree,

I support these people on a daily basis....I see it with my own eyes.
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So what groups do you work with? Have you considered that maybe it's the subset you have contact with that display those traits?

My Scouts are independent, intelligent, community focused individuals with great drive and ambition. What would my Scouts gain from your proposed national service?

Im also lecturing 18yr olds through a degree, they certainly aren't feckless, idle or self absorbed. Should they do your proposed national service as well?
 
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I was reading about a murder case last night involving three best friends - females all aged 16. Two of them decided that they "just didn't like" the other anymore and proceeded to lure her out one night to the middle of nowhere, stab her ~50 times and slit her throat to near decapitation. They then dumped her body somewhere, covered it with leaves/sticks and continued on with their lives as if nothing had happened.

They didn't get caught until over half a year later, but during that time they acted completely normal, even continuing to go round their murdered 'best' friend's house to console her parents. It was so weird reading through their Twitters which just looked like your average young teen's accounts, with tweets moaning about homework, arguments with parents, etc. All this despite knowing what they had done.

Blew my mind that young people are capable of these things, and with the sort of shocking stuff I see on social media these days I'm really surprised it's not more common. Kids are losing it.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
I was reading about a murder case last night involving three best friends - females all aged 16. Two of them decided that they "just didn't like" the other anymore and proceeded to lure her out one night to the middle of nowhere, stab her ~50 times and slit her throat to near decapitation. They then dumped her body somewhere, covered it with leaves/sticks and continued on with their lives as if nothing had happened.

They didn't get caught until over half a year later, but during that time they acted completely normal, even continuing to go round their murdered 'best' friend's house to console her parents. It was so weird reading through their Twitters which just looked like your average young teen's accounts, with tweets moaning about homework, arguments with parents, etc. All this despite knowing what they had done.

Blew my mind that young people are capable of these things, and with the sort of shocking stuff I see on social media these days I'm really surprised it's not more common. Kids are losing it.
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Did you really not think these sort of things went on during the 'good old days'? There is actually less crime and wars now than ever before. It's just now there is 24hr news so you hear about it.
 
Kids today are just people, no different from kids in any other era, some good, some bad, and certainly not deserving of effective indentured servitude based on a few anecdotes.

The ones who have lost it are those that judge all young people by the media hyped actions of a few.
 
I don't see how compulsary NS would benefit anyone really.

Kids of today are no different to kids of my generation, but if anything they are smarter, more informed and more aware of the political and social bias / divides. It is all well and good working for the nation, or defending it and trying to instill some national pride in a young person, but how are you going to get them to swallow the hypocrisy, the lies, the political games and all of the other guff that permeates our country? We talk of freedom and liberty in one breath and then force people to serve without choice in the other?

We create an environment where young people struggle, then blame them because they are apathetic about a system that does not work for them and pack them off to boot camp to make them a "better citizen"?

Better meaning just do as you are told and do not question the state or it's leadership.

I don't think that is ever going to work and will breed more disillusion and apathy, particularly given most of the threats facing our country have been, to some degree, brought on by our own ruling classes and our own policy making both here and abroad.
 
I personally think if it is done correctly, and with well trained people, it can be hugely beneficial.

I was on the cusp of the cut off for French military service. So didn't do the full term, but what I did do, was great. I learned a lot of skills, made friends, and actually whilst I was never much of a tear away teen, learned a lot of discipline too. It wasn't fun all the time, and some of it was arguably horrendous, but nearly 20 years on, I'm alive and kicking and doing well for myself, and those that have met me think I'm alright too - so it hasn't screwed me up too much.

The only thing I think that would be a struggle, would be how to finance it all. If that was all sorted I'd vote for it to be in place tomorrow.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
I was reading about a murder case last night involving three best friends - females all aged 16. Two of them decided that they "just didn't like" the other anymore and proceeded to lure her out one night to the middle of nowhere, stab her ~50 times and slit her throat to near decapitation. They then dumped her body somewhere, covered it with leaves/sticks and continued on with their lives as if nothing had happened.

They didn't get caught until over half a year later, but during that time they acted completely normal, even continuing to go round their murdered 'best' friend's house to console her parents. It was so weird reading through their Twitters which just looked like your average young teen's accounts, with tweets moaning about homework, arguments with parents, etc. All this despite knowing what they had done.

Blew my mind that young people are capable of these things, and with the sort of shocking stuff I see on social media these days I'm really surprised it's not more common. Kids are losing it.
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Got a link to that? I'm morbidly fascinated.
 
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