Natural/in built motivation?

potatolord said:
It's only in the last couple of years I have realised that was both nonsense and damaging. It led to me not taking advantage of opportunitues and settling for the easy option, nearly every time. I then arrogantly assumed that my failures were not my fault, when they really were. Ah well, at least I have learned.
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It isn't nonsense though.

If everyone was motivated and tried their hardest and attempted to take all the opportunities given to them, most of them would still fail, because the entire global economy just would not work.

I agree it is damaging in one sense (in that it stopped you from trying), but you trying your hardest most likely would have led you to 'failure' anyway.
 
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Jono8 said:
It isn't nonsense though.

If everyone was motivated and tried their hardest and attempted to take all the opportunities given to them, most of them would still fail, because the entire global economy just would not work.

I agree it is damaging in one sense (in that it stopped you from trying), but you trying your hardest most likely would have led you to 'failure' anyway.
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I know someone that was in an admin job until there early 40s. She self taught her self programming and got a junior dev job, 15 years later she's a senior developer and i believe shes on 65k+. Imagine if she seen your post and just thought hmmm na ill carry on with the average paying admin job.
 
Bassmansam said:
I know someone that was in an admin job until there early 40s. She self taught her self programming and got a junior dev job, 15 years later she's a senior developer and i believe shes on 65k+. Imagine if she seen your post and just thought hmmm na ill carry on with the average paying admin job.
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I think you misunderstand me. For every one of your friend, there will be countless other people who taught themselves programming and tried their best to earn £65k+ a year and failed due to no fault of their own (and were just as talented/did just as much work or more as your friend).

I am not saying hard work and effort doesnt pay off. It does.

To be a success in life you need the hard work and effort, but also a colossal amount of luck, because there will be millions of people just as talented (or more so), and just as hard working (or more so), who won't succeed.

I have a reasonably good life in comparison to most in the world, but i know full well a great deal of it is due to luck.
 
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Jono8 said:
I think you misunderstand me. For every one of your friend, there will be countless other people who taught themselves programming and tried their best to earn £65k+ a year and failed due to no fault of their own (and were just as talented/did just as much work or more as your friend).
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But if you try, then you might get the reward (whatever that may be, in this case it's a well paid job)
If you don't try, then you definitely won't get the reward.

Can you not see how you're the architect of your own downfall?
 
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Jono8 said:
I think you misunderstand me. For every one of your friend, there will be countless other people who taught themselves programming and tried their best to earn £65k+ a year and failed due to no fault of their own (and were just as talented/did just as much work or more as your friend).

I am not saying hard work and effort doesnt pay off. It does.

To be a success in life you need the hard work and effort, but also a colossal amount of luck, because there will be millions of people just as talented (or more so), and just as hard working (or more so), who won't succeed.
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But if you try you'll never know.
At least trying and failing means you know.
And you're in no worse position than you were before.

If you tried nothing because you thought it was pointless.. You'd be on the dole or worse, the street.

All of my favourite hobbies now would be absent if I hadn't taken the plunge. It's crazy (and a tad scary) to dismiss "trying" as a pointless endeavour.
Really.. No one would have any hobbies of they didn't try something new.
 
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Jono8 said:
and unhappy? Who knows.

A great deal of rich and "successful" people end up topping themselves.
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But wealth or career isn't the absolute definition of successful.
In fact it's something many people get wrapped up in.

Success for me experience is achievement. I care not for career. But doing a new trail and seeing a new sight. Experiencing a new feeling that comes with it. That's what I value. If I never tried MTB. I'd have never known. What I do know. Is I'm happier now I do this new hobby.

It sounds like you're reaching for the bottom. "life is meaningless, so why bother" in that case, you may as well not bother. With anything.

Living just lying in a bed seems as pointless as trying your hardest. And at least trying has the chance of making you feel happy. Even if it comes with lows.

I know the thoughts and I know what you mean. Because really, yes, for me life is meaningless. But if I'm not going to top myself, I'd rather spend my life at least doing new things. Why? Simply because I like new things. There is no other real. Quantification to it. And yes. It is technically pointless. But really. It provides endorphins, I like endorphins. Thus I will try new things.


I've lived both in doom, apathy and depression. And I'm much "happier" not being in that space.


I believe it all matters for nothing. But because it all matters for nothing, may as well try. Because.. I like being happy.
 
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Jono8 said:
It isn't nonsense though.

If everyone was motivated and tried their hardest and attempted to take all the opportunities given to them, most of them would still fail, because the entire global economy just would not work.

I agree it is damaging in one sense (in that it stopped you from trying), but you trying your hardest most likely would have led you to 'failure' anyway.
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I used to think like that, as I said.

It is limiting.

There is a big difference between trying your best and failing and simply not bothering. One of those is not a personal fault.

I am damn sure that, had I been more flexible and positive, I would have done better in life. Jeez, when I think of the opportunities I didn't take, I could kick myself.

It's annoying it took me so long to realise that my personal approach was wrong, but I am pleased that I learned in the end. Ho hum- half a win.
 
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413x said:
But if you try you'll never know.
At least trying and failing means you know.
And you're in no worse position than you were before.

If you tried nothing because you thought it was pointless.. You'd be on the dole or worse, the street.

All of my favourite hobbies now would be absent if I hadn't taken the plunge. It's crazy (and a tad scary) to dismiss "trying" as a pointless endeavour.
Really.. No one would have any hobbies of they didn't try something new.
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Your first three lines as a Haiku:
Don't fear the attempt,
Failure twice, third time's the charm.
Learn from your mistakes.
 
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potatolord said:
I used to think like that, as I said.

It is limiting.
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I agree in a sense, but i don't see it as any sort of answer/key to happiness.

I think if you can deal with the failures, and are aware that you most likely will, you may cope.

I imagine a great many people in life are also sad/depressed about the fact they tried so hard and put so much effort into something they wanted, only to never achieve it/have it.

I don't agree that just trying hard or getting to say that you tried your best is any sort of salvation from depression/being miserable. If anything it could make you feel worse.
 
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Jono8 said:
I agree in a sense, but i don't see it as any sort of answer/key to happiness.

I think if you can deal with the failures, and are aware that you most likely will, you may cope.

I imagine a great many people in life are also sad/depressed about the fact they tried so hard and put so much effort into something they wanted, only to never achieve it/have it.

I don't agree that just trying hard or getting to say that you tried your best is any sort of salvation from depression/being miserable. If anything it could make you feel worse.
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I am not promoting a key to happiness!

I am advocating an open, positive approach. It lets you take opportunities.
 
potatolord said:
Some who fall are lost.
Others grasp what is in reach,
They can rise again.
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I had to look up what a Haiku was I knew it was x, y, x but not 5,7,5!

I'm not very cultured!



Another big one for me was moving to Wales. It was a big change and was a tough decision. Would have been easier to stay in Lincolnshire where stuff was stable. But it didn't feel Like home.
Its made me so much more positive. I may never leave (unless emigrating)
 
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Jono8 said:
I think you misunderstand me. For every one of your friend, there will be countless other people who taught themselves programming and tried their best to earn £65k+ a year and failed due to no fault of their own (and were just as talented/did just as much work or more as your friend).

I am not saying hard work and effort doesnt pay off. It does.

To be a success in life you need the hard work and effort, but also a colossal amount of luck, because there will be millions of people just as talented (or more so), and just as hard working (or more so), who won't succeed.

I have a reasonably good life in comparison to most in the world, but i know full well a great deal of it is due to luck.
Click to expand...
Luck has nothing to do with it. There are many social, economic and cultural reasons why things why maybe you have to work twice as hard as the other guy to get that job, but you won't get that job if you don't put in the work.....and if you do put in the work, you'll get it.

Literally anyone could say "I'm going to be a professional software developer next year".....take some good advice from people in the field, do tutorials, build a GitHub portfolio, and network.....and achieve it. Especially anyone tech savvy enough to be loitering on OCUK.
 
mid_gen said:
Luck has nothing to do with it. There are many social, economic and cultural reasons why things why maybe you have to work twice as hard as the other guy to get that job, but you won't get that job if you don't put in the work.....and if you do put in the work, you'll get it.

Literally anyone could say "I'm going to be a professional software developer next year".....take some good advice from people in the field, do tutorials, build a GitHub portfolio, and network.....and achieve it. Especially anyone tech savvy enough to be loitering on OCUK.
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This is obviously false.

How would the world work if everyone wanted to be a professional software developer and was guaranteed to become one if they put in the work? Our society and economy simply doesn't work like that.

If you think "luck has nothing to do with it" then you don't understand how the world works. At all. Or more likely, you like to belive that any success you have had in life, is purely becasue of you and that you are better than anyone else who didn't achieve what you did.
 
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Jono8 said:
This is obviously false.

How would the world work if everyone wanted to be a professional software developer and was guaranteed to become one if they put in the work? Our society and economy simply doesn't work like that.

If you think "luck has nothing to do with it" then you don't understand how the world works. At all. Or more likely, you like to belive that any success you have had in life, is purely becasue of you and that you are better than anyone else who didn't achieve what you did.
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You are thinking too binary.

This is not reality.
Even if everyone tried. If you tried more than others you would succeed.

Yes. People have advantages.
A clear Example is athletics. If you have excellent genetics you will win. And you don't have to try harder than everyone else. But you still have to try harder than 99.9... Pc of the population. Yes you need luck.


But success doesn't have to be 1st place. It could be beating your own PB. In fact this is much more healthy.
At work there's often the SMART acronym. One is achievable. You can absolutely beat your PB. But yes you probably (most likely) beat the world record.


Sucess and achievement isn't about being the best of everyone. But if you don't try.. You're guaranteed to get no where.
 
Jono8 said:
This is obviously false.

How would the world work if everyone wanted to be a professional software developer and was guaranteed to become one if they put in the work? Our society and economy simply doesn't work like that.

If you think "luck has nothing to do with it" then you don't understand how the world works. At all. Or more likely, you like to belive that any success you have had in life, is purely becasue of you and that you are better than anyone else who didn't achieve what you did.
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Well obviously, not everyone is actually going to decide to become a software developer.

So if any given individual decides to become one, they absolutely can do it.

I completely acknowledge the various privileges I have enjoyed that have made the path to where I am easier than it might have been for others. But I'm not a software developer because I'm lucky. I'm a software developer because I chose to be one, and did it.

Luck implies you're a victim of things outside your control. Fix your attitude and grasp things that ARE in your control, and you'll find things will happen for you.
 
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