New and shocking footage of British troops torturing Iraqis...

[Lt. Manlove]

I assume that is aimed at me

Yes, sorry.

Best thing about Royal is that you'll drink your oppos ****, fill him in, stitch him up and then next day he'll lend you his car as he plans his tongue in cheek revenge.

 

[JimmyEatWorms]

Police can act like this too in riots. If they didn't they would appear soft and be put at a disadvantage.

THe police will only ever (or should only ever) use violence against an aggressor. Once the aggression stops, so does the police action. What these soldiers done is NOTHING like tactics used by riot police.

Maybe the camera man gives you the impression it should be frowned upon by what he says. I know he sounds like a psychopath but the soldiers are just being professionals.

If they were being "professional" then why have the MOD already condemned their actions?

 

[Lt. Manlove]

If they were being "professional" then why have the MOD already condemned their actions?

I would call it a formality to keep you happy.

 

[Jet]

I always supported the war in Iraq for the simple reason of helping the Iraqi people. I didn't care about the strict legalities, WMD's, oil etc. SH was a brutal, sadistic dictator with a despicable regime. The Iraqi people needed help. This view has been strengthened as the war has gone on and i've read further into the subject.

How can I argue this point with our forces doing acts such as this?

As an aside however, these Iraqi's were not innocent. They were attacking the troops for the same reason it happens everywhere else - because they can. It was an excuse to attack people with no consequences. The same happens in NI and other places. Do you think the people attacking riot police and soldiers in NI with rocks and petrol bombs actually want independence or other such noble causes? Of course they don't, they are charva's looking for an excuse to get away with something they couldn't usually. IMO the same occurred in the video in Iraq, those people weren't attacking the troops for a valid reason, there was a huge crowd and they knew the troops could do nothing in retaliation.

Maybe the pressure on the troops because of this, caused the beating. I don't know. Nevertheless, it solved nothing and never will and I totally condemn it.

 

[Dingo]

Erm...so you are comparing this to a bit of a scrap outside a pub?

of course not, a scrap outside a pub would have resulted in several stab wounds, maybe a death, and at the very least a trip to the Hospital....this looks mild in comparison.

Take away the jerk-off doing the commentary and what have you got?...............a saturday night in any British town.....and this is a war zone directly after a violent confrontation.....put the event in perspective!!.

Many muslim members of this forum deride the British public for believing everything the media tell us is true without question......I'll join them on this one!!

 

[Dingo]

They were getting headbutted by soldiers in riot gear and beaten with batons as well as being kicked and punched. I'd say it was a pretty solid beating. Certainly not something I'd enjoy going through.

First rule of an accident, treat the patient who is not making any noise because they are the ones who are seriously hurt, those guys were making plenty of noise which by definition means that they weren't hurt enough not to shout "please, please".

Look on the bright side, they will undoubtably be suing the British Government (read Taxpayer) in the near future, and using the money to swap their stones and hand grenades for RPG's to kill British soldiers......that make you any happier?!!

 

[Chasser]

I would call it a formality to keep you happy.

You know nothing. What are you 17, 18? Potential RM indeed, after reading some of your comments, with an attitude like that, I'd be very surprised if you actually make the grade.

And as far as the MOD investigation into the video, take it from me, it will be thorough. In view of yet more bad publicity, and the ongoing issue of Deepcut Barracks, they will be desperate to identify and discipline those involved.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

Honestly, I couldn't care less that the soldiers beat a few civilians up, the situation for the Army there is horrendous (and anyone that disagrees has obviously never served in active combat), what I do find incredibly irresponsible is that the newspapers published the story. Nothing like fanning the flames!

 

[Nixeh]

The guy who mocked whilst filming is an idiot. But then if someone had lobbed a grenade in front of you and it was lucky enough to be a dud i tell u id be pretty bloody annoyed.

But yeah its still a bit iffy

 

[DustyMiller]

Ok, so a snatch squad has gone into a riot situation, and lifted four very specific people. Do you think they were random, or targetted ???

If they were targetted, why were they lifted ?? for just this riot, or for other previous activities, if it was done in early 2004, there was no law and order, there were no police or courts in Iraq at that time. So where should they have been sent ????

If they were lifted at random, then they may have been doing something that we cannot and did not see, discuss what they may have been doing to have caused the soldiers to do that, also remembering that at that time in 2004 there was no Iraqi judicial system.

Remember the training ground that the british soldiers have had for this sort of "Civil War" scenario - Northern Island. That is the situation in Iraq at the moment it is a civil war, but it is being fed by many other nationalities coming over the border to have a go at the western forces.

Now Im not condoning the actions in any way, but everyone and I mean every one has not seen oor heard the precursor to this riot, back in 2004 Basra was a very peacful place, one where we could walk around happily, and go to the local markets, and eat in the local restaurants, not now, the insurgents have taken control. The are every where, the Local police, and army, and local gangs are infested with them. So much so that in the south British people are under constant threat of kidnap since the brits pulled those two guys out of the "police station"

Oh yeah and can we get the inflamatory thread title changed it wasnt so much torture as much as a severe beating.

 

[theleg]

Abide by the law we apparently we hold dearly.

What has our law got to do with it? Would it not be Iraqi law they were tried under.

 

[i know nothing]

The issue of our soldiers beating people which undermines the past efforts that have been made to portray the brits as the friendly face of the coallition.

I agree that it was an issue. It was an issue 2 years ago when it happened, but the general subject was dealt with the media then because of other events, we know that it inflamed Iraqi opinion and that led to increased attacks on Coalition forces in Iraq. If this was an event that had happened 2 or 3 months ago then I could understand where you're coming from, but it's not, it's just dragging up old events to sell newspapers without any thought of the consequences.

Whatever happened to "hearts and minds"? You can't bully an entire country into submission. If you dump on them they are going to try and dump on you from an even greater height.

I agree with what you say about hearts and minds and the rest of your comments. I should imagine that there are plenty of people who are hopping mad in the MOD that any good work that they have done since the media first reported on this subject sometime ago may have come undone as a result of the NOTW publishing this material. This was my point from the begining, the publishing of this material has served no constructive purpose.

Oh yeah and can we get the inflamatory thread title changed it wasnt so much torture as much as a severe beating.

I would agree with regards to it being unnecessarily inflammatory.

 

[Mundu]

It's dissapointing. Anyone who thinks this was justified needs to think a bit more.

Also just to make a point there are good and bad people in the world and not all British soldiers beat innocent defenseless people just as not all Iraqis are gun wielding terrorists intent on killing British soilders.

 

[dirtydog]

I merely accept how the world turns dd, sad as it may be.

Well you might accept these beatings as acceptable but plenty of current serving and ex-soldiers don't agree with you, from what I've read. They have brought shame on the army and this country, and should be ejected from the army in disgrace once they are identified.

 

[Stiff_Cookie]

For all those people who are supporting the troops in the video, do you also support Lydie England and the US troops who made arse pyramids and tortured Iraqi prisoners? Same scenario really.

 

[divine`]

What the hell is an 'arse pyramid' ?

 

[theleg]

For all those people who are supporting the troops in the video, do you also support Lydie England and the US troops who made arse pyramids and tortured Iraqi prisoners? Same scenario really.

I keep hearing americans desperately trying to make that argument..It aint equivalent.

Humilating soldiers, POWs, disgracing them in the eyes of their peers and their religion....Its very different to giving some rowdy kids a kicking behind a wall to teach them a quick lesson.

 

[dirtydog]

I keep hearing americans desperately trying to make that argument..It aint equivalent.

Humilating soldiers, POWs, disgracing them in the eyes of their peers and their religion....Its very different to giving some rowdy kids a kicking behind a wall to teach them a quick lesson.

I agree with Stiff Cookie, I don't see much difference between the two. Also the British soldiers kicked a dead Iraqi which isn't exactly going to win hearts and minds in the middle east either.

Also it would be naive for anyone to think that this video incident is the only time such things have happened. Who knows how commonplace it is?

 

[Richdog]

I can see why some people are condoning the troops actions here. If you were a soldier, talking to your mate one second and then all of a sudden from nowhere came a rock that hit him in the head or a grenade that severely wounded him then. You would be absolutely furious, you would probably feel like grabbing them and beating them to within an inch of their life. That is a normal feeling and I understand that.

However, we're not talking about some thug on the street, we are talking about a professionally trained and paid soldier, who is charged with keeping the peace and order in a foreign country, where all eyes are upon them. Certainly not an easy job, or one that I would ever dream of doing, but one that they've chosen to do with all the responsibilities that result.

Simply put: the day they joined the army and received their full training was the day that they accepted a set of rules, a set of morals, and a code of conduct. It shouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

[theleg]

I agree with Stiff Cookie, I don't see much difference between the two. Also the British soldiers kicked a dead Iraqi which isn't exactly going to win hearts and minds in the middle east either.

Also it would be naive for anyone to think that this video incident is the only time such things have happened. Who knows how commonplace it is?

Of course you dont

It depends entirely on your point of view.. You can either see this as a good old fashioned way of teaching yobs a lesson or you can see it as evil soldiers torturing little children..

Everyone keeps ignoring my questions in this thread..What would you guys rather the soldiers had done? The group of soldiers went after the specific kids, and brought them back..Would you rather they had imprisoned them? Allowed Iraqi law to take its course? Or a 1 minute kicking and then released?