New Canon full frame?

Nexus said:
Is this 7D AA filter nonsense still going on?

I've taken some fantastic pictures with the camera, as have many others and never found it to be an issue.
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You could say the same about any camera in existence, this ironically therefore makes your post non-definitive nonsense.
The 7D seems to be a pretty divisive camera, some like the speed and think the IQ is acceptable, others like the speed but can't live with the IQ, not everyone has the same needs or standards.
 
Raymond Lin said:
With 100% certainty?
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Yes, Canon has released a similar sensor with the same size, resolution and pixel pitch with a weaker AA filter, Nikon, Pentax and Sony have sensors with slightly smaller and larger pixel pitches all with slightly weaker AA filters , none of which suffer from moire.
 
D.P. said:
Yes, Canon has released a similar sensor with the same size, resolution and pixel pitch with a weaker AA filter, Nikon, Pentax and Sony have sensors with slightly smaller and larger pixel pitches all with slightly weaker AA filters , none of which suffer from moire.
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Then you can tell us with 100% certainty why Canon choose that AA filter and not the others.

What advantage was there?

Have you seen test of a 7D sensor, THAT sensor, not a similar one, not similar size one, not a similar pixel count one, THAT one with a different AA filter?
 
Raymond Lin said:
Then you can tell us with 100% certainty why Canon choose that AA filter and not the others.

What advantage was there?
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I'd wager it was one of their weird production decisions that force people to look at another product if they don't quite like it.

God only knows how the execs at Canon think.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Then you can tell us with 100% certainty why Canon choose that AA filter and not the others.

What advantage was there?

Have you seen test of a 7D sensor, THAT sensor, not a similar one, not similar size one, not a similar pixel count one, THAT one with a different AA filter?
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We can say with 100% certainty that the 7D doesn't need an AA filter that strong to prevent moire in static images, there is a mountain of empirical evidence.

Thus Canon either used a strong AA filter in the 7D to separate products and preserve sales of higher end bodies, to reduce moire in video, or due to technical incompetence. I don't believe Canon are that incompetent to utilize an AA filter that is so badly out of spec by accident. If Canon are that incompetent then I wouldn't want to invest in their system because who knows what mistakes they will make in the future.



MF cameras have done away with AA filters for a long time now, and they are used in the exact situations you exact moire to be the worst (comm usage in fashion/studio work with repeating patterns in textiles, images often blown up to huge proportions, highest image quality expectations).
 
D.P. said:
Stuff about AA filters
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So that's a No then to my question? You've not seen that sensor with a weaker AA filter? And you don't know with 100% certainty why they chosen to use that AA filter in the 7D.

I doubt any of us will know why, you yourself have stated a few If's showing you don't know.

That's what i have been trying to say for the past week !

You are not a sensor engineer, even if you are, you are not the one designed it. We can only speculate as to why.

Hell, like you said, you could be a misjudgment on their part, either way, you lot are all guessing on why it's there.

Where does that take us? Nothing, it's there and it's not going anywhere, until it's replacement that comes along and move it out of the way. TBH, i have no bloody idea how people have taken this AA filter stuff such seriously. Go take some pictures and stop reading stupid charts, colour graphs and what not.

Here's a photo for you.

9ALYY.jpg


We should all go back and shoot film, none of this Moire and AA filter business. It was tiring enough talking about grain in NPH, Delta 100 and whatnot.
 
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Good 7D review here

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-7D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx


This review even has samples at the bottom showing the AA issue..

Honestly looking at what this chap has shown it is not that bad and can be tweaked out.

I don't know still looks like the camera to get to me out of the 5D2 and 7D. Not really to bothered about full frame and the 1.6 crop will help me with lenses.

Also the firmware update too looks nice and adds some value to the camera.
 
It's threads like this why I don't bother in this forum much anymore. Lots of Internet hyperbole and very little actual user experience.
 
Rojin said:
It's threads like this why I don't bother in this forum much anymore. Lots of Internet hyperbole and very little actual user experience.
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Yes have to agree here after doing a bit more research into this issue, it seems a none issue to me and can be tweaked out or reduced to a point where it won't matter it is there anyway. Also seems not only the 7D shows this issue and from what I understand too is if you mess with the AA filter and any of the cameras filters the Auto focus may stop functioning correctly too.. This I don't need and would rather just dial in 2 or 3 points of sharpening inside the camera.

Anyway seems the AA filter is there for a reason Canon understand better than the average joe with a click and shoot device. I saw the way to mod the camera and add the AA filter for video and remove it for taking pictures, but what I really want to see is 2 exact shots showing the AA filter on and off, so far no one has shown this. Only thing I have seen is 2 very different cameras with different AA filters on them and showing the 7D to look worse. :confused:... Not exactly the correct way to do such a test in my opinion and the sensors are so different and also the megapixels..

Anyway 7D seems to be right for my needs and I have seen some amazing shots with it. I really have to ask if it was that bad why do the pros use the 7D as a 2nd camera or even as a crop to increase the reach of their lenses. Every pro that seems to own a 5D of some sort has one. See just that fact says to me they are good cameras. I also suspect the 7D MK2 (if full frame) and the 70D to cost a lot more than what the 7D currently costs and really don't want to spend over a £1000 on a camera when I need to add another expensive lens that costs more than the camera and maybe even one more lens I really want that is about half the price of the camera again. I want to have like 2-3 lenses for this camera that do everything I need and have started selling my none L / prime lenses and wanting only prime and L lenses now. To me the lenses are what make a great camera in most cases and I would rather invest in better glass than waste money on the body because most of the bodies are not that different these days and nothing a bit of photoshop can't fix anyway, also the 7D body does so much more than I need and just that fact is fantastic to me and I will love learning all the new features if has and try get the best out of them.

Only camera I see from Canon that comes close to features of the 7D is the 5D MK3 at the moment and that is just silly priced to me (The pricing of this camera is what makes me believe the next new cameras from Canon are also going to have a silly price tag), I would rather get a 5D Mk2 and a 7D for the price of that and get the best of both worlds then and still have a large chunk of change leftover.

Anyway need to find out more about a lens I posted about in this thread too because i'm wanting to buy both at the same time.

Guys mind looking into this thread too and seeing one of the lenses I speak of, thanks.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18428056
 
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Purgatory said:
Anyway 7D seems to be right for my needs and I have seen some amazing shots with it. I really have to ask if it was that bad why do the pros use the 7D as a 2nd camera or even as a crop to increase the reach of their lenses. Every pro that seems to own a 5D of some sort has one. See just that fact says to me they are good cameras.
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Most likely because they've taken some great shots with them and when presented to a paying client, the client hasn't gone:

"Not paying for that... you must have taken it with a Canon 7D, I can tell by the AA filtering!" ;)
 
Sorry, one more point (and it's the last thing I will say on this AA thing).

As for Canon's misjudgement or incompetence for getting the AA filter wrong (if it was an error and if it is such a big deal)…..Let's see, off my head, how about Leica's M8's purple fringing episode…..how much did that body cost again?! Or Nikon's 35/1.4 missing some nano coating that is found on all other lenses (or missing something I forgot)? And their continuous conscious decision not to put AF motors in some bodies and some lenses? Or using a 5Dii shot video in their D800 launch or Pocketwizard's design flaw in their Flex system with the 580exii? Or Olympus's financial scandal last year?

Or shall we not use any of them because of one seemingly misjudgement or mistake, but the decision in the 7D could be done on purpose, the sensor may have some stupid moiré problem (unless you can show me a photo taken with that exact, EXACT sensor without an AA filter).

You know, all these imperfect companies and their useless hardware, lets give up and all go shoot Pentax instead!
 
Raymond Lin said:
And their continuous conscious decision not to put AF motors in some bodies and some lenses?
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Or even adding Image stabilisation (IS) to the body and making their lenses cheaper that way.

I wouldn't mind seeing Image stabilisation (IS) in a Canon body.


Raymond Lin said:
Or shall we not use any of them because of one seemingly misjudgement or mistake, but the decision in the 7D could be done on purpose, the sensor may have some stupid moiré problem (unless you can show me a photo taken with that exact, EXACT sensor without an AA filter).
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This is my point, until we see the 7D with and without the AA filter on with exactly the same lens and same conditions and same shot, we can't really judge why they did that.



To me the 7D is like a dream camera as I would want it and I was about to pull the trigger the other day until I saw this thread that had me worried and made me think should I just go for the 5D MK2 and not get burned but after seeing reviews with the 7D and 5D MK2 and seeing images from both cameras I really can't fault the 7D and I do see the image quality on the Full frame 5D Mk2 as being better but the disadvantages of the AF, metering and not having the crop factor (to me this is an advantage on the 7D the 1.6 crop factor, because I would like to do wildlife shots and taking pictures of aeroplanes in flight), also the video mode on the 7D is nicer to use and has more features.

If I was taking pictures as a job I would get the 5D Mk3 and get it over and done with but i'm doing it as a hobby and to me the camera is for family pictures and some nice wildlife pictures which I would like to do with again some aeroplane and fast moving objects, which the 7D can do well from seeing peoples results. The 5D MK2 can be hit and miss in the hands of someone like me that is not a professional photographer at the end of the day. I would like a good keep rate and not have to keep my hands down on the shutter and hope one out of 20 or more comes out good. Also sometimes when you miss that shot you may never get it again especially with wildlife.
 
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Having recently got a 7D I've been following this thread with interest

At first I was worried I had made a mistake, I soon realised that I hadn't

The 7D is just right for me, I want a crop camera, I wanted to auto focus features as I shoot a lot of sports

I didn't know about this AA filter stuff until reading this thread and I've had enough of hearing about it now

I'm really happy with my 7D and it certainly performs better than my old 350D despite the AA filter!
 
Nexus said:
Most likely because they've taken some great shots with them and when presented to a paying client, the client hasn't gone:

"Not paying for that... you must have taken it with a Canon 7D, I can tell by the AA filtering!" ;)
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My 400d has no AA filtering hehe :)

The main two issues with the 7d are this:

if you under or overexpose by just one stop, you are ****ed.

It has a strong aa filter.

Other then that its a great camera but for my needs and wants, its not the camera for me purely because its a crop and i personally want to see huge IQ gains with the next camera i upgrade from my 400d.

i would see some iq increase from 400d to 7d but not as much as going from a 400d to a 5d3.
 
Purgatory said:
Anyway 7D seems to be right for my needs and I have seen some amazing shots with it. I really have to ask if it was that bad why do the pros use the 7D as a 2nd camera or even as a crop to increase the reach of their lenses. Every pro that seems to own a 5D of some sort has one.
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That's because up until now, Canon didn't offer a 5D that could do it all. You needed two different bodies.
 
howler said:
Having recently got a 7D I've been following this thread with interest

At first I was worried I had made a mistake, I soon realised that I hadn't

The 7D is just right for me, I want a crop camera, I wanted to auto focus features as I shoot a lot of sports

I didn't know about this AA filter stuff until reading this thread and I've had enough of hearing about it now

I'm really happy with my 7D and it certainly performs better than my old 350D despite the AA filter!
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Excellent, guess there is no need for you to keep reading this thread.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Or shall we not use any of them because of one seemingly misjudgement or mistake, but the decision in the 7D could be done on purpose, the sensor may have some stupid moiré problem (unless you can show me a photo taken with that exact, EXACT sensor without an AA filter).
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Purgatory said:
This is my point, until we see the 7D with and without the AA filter on with exactly the same lens and same conditions and same shot, we can't really judge why they did that.
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Do either of you know why moire occurs on a typical Bayer sensor, or is it all hocus pocus at the minute, with only Canon (and other) engineers that must understand this witchcraft?

Below is a short video, unfortunately it was done by Matt Granger "that...

 
Are you capable to make a post without link, chart, video or article?

I don't care for the video or tests, like I said, where does that take us?

Have people stopped buying Leica M9? No
Have people stopped stopping buying Nikon lenses? No
Have people stopped buying Canon bodies? No
 
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