New Man Utd Manager Search

[shipinabottle]

To me RR has done his job, he's highlighted how utterly devoid of character this squad is. Players who couldn't give two ***** about the club and shouldn't be anywhere near a club of this stature.

Ole enabled them and kept telling them they were "good lads" and "don't worry it'll happen...."

I'm praying Richard Arnold can see that and this is going to be the start of building a real team/club rather than jobs for the boys.

 

[Bossman]

To me RR has done his job, he's highlighted how utterly devoid of character this squad is. Players who couldn't give two ***** about the club and shouldn't be anywhere near a club of this stature.

Ole enabled them and kept telling them they were "good lads" and "don't worry it'll happen...."

I'm praying Richard Arnold can see that and this is going to be the start of building a real team/club rather than jobs for the boys.

Agree. Not sure how anyone could lay blame with Rangnick. I think the fact that he'd gave up on his change in system after about a month of being in charge probably tells you all you need to know about what type of opinion he's got of the players. Even respectfully pointing it out in press conferences shows you that they hardly care, as it's not had any positive reaction at all.

The place stinks and I just hope whoever comes in is given the support, time and respect they deserve. From the board, players and supporters too.

 

[Calpol]

Happy to take 2-3 years to compete for anything as long as we are building something that can compete in the long term. I think a proper manager with a proper staff should be able to salvage something from this current squad and with a couple of years of savvy spending we would be fine. Still a lot of ifs of course.

RR was probably not the right man to take over in the interim in hindsight. Not necessarily elite level manager and couldn't bring in a good team around him due to it being mid season. Not sure what other options would have allowed us to do what we are doing though and fingers crossed RR will go upstairs and do a good job. I want to like the club I support again. That would be a nice start.

The board did not want to change mid season but results with OGS were so bad that they had to hence the appointment of Rangnick who was prepared to be an interim. I suppose the hope was that the new manager bounce would secure a CL spot but with this toxic bunch of players it back fired. It's hard to figure if we would have been better off sticking with Solskjaer as he had previously been a streaky manager and arguably got an occasional tune out of this lot.

The main thing is that there will be wholesale changes in personnel and we might have a chance of building something with some decent coaches.

 

[omnomnom]

The board did not want to change mid season but results with OGS were so bad that they had to hence the appointment of Rangnick who was prepared to be an interim. I suppose the hope was that the new manager bounce would secure a CL spot but with this toxic bunch of players it back fired. It's hard to figure if we would have been better off sticking with Solskjaer as he had previously been a streaky manager and arguably got an occasional tune out of this lot.

The main thing is that there will be wholesale changes in personnel and we might have a chance of building something with some decent coaches.

How confident are you of this? Genuinely.

 

[Thekwango]

How confident are you of this? Genuinely.

I know it’s not me you’re asking but I couldn’t be more than maybe 40% confident. There’s just something not quite right at the club and I’m not sure the best manager in the world could fix it currently. So I’ll expect the worst which means I’ll be even more happy if I’m wrong.
I just hope and pray the club don’t suffer another 26 year ‘hangover’ similar to when Sir Matt stepped down.

 

[fez]

I know it’s not me you’re asking but I couldn’t be more than maybe 40% confident.

There are people who claim to be associated with/have worked at the club and know people at various levels in the organisation and they say its basically a ********. A complete mess of conflicting ambitions, incompetence and mismanagement.

These people might just be stirring and making it all up based on the current issues apparent to the outside world but it wouldn't surprise me. Who knows. I think that if EtH comes in, brings in good staff and tries unsuccessfully to change the club then we probably have our answer. He is by all accounts a good manager who can coach a team to play good football and he will have 10x the resources he had at Ajax. If he can't change anything or move the club in the right direction I will probably give up until the Glazers are gone.

 

[Calpol]

How confident are you of this? Genuinely.

Fans have to be optimistic. Don't forget we have Lingard, Pogba, Cavani, Mata definitely moving on and possibly Matic, Martial, vd Beek, Bailly and Ronaldo leaving. Thats a significant part of your squad which forces some new signings and an opportunity for some under 23 players to break through. Pogba has been a huge issue for this club since day one, why they resigned him is beyond me. I'll be glad when he's moved on. If we are getting Eric ten Haag then he comes with a strong coaching pedigree and a style of play we have a chance of a reset a'la Liverpool with Klopp. It won't be next season but I'll be happy if we see a plan and progress towards it.

 

[omnomnom]

There are people who claim to be associated with/have worked at the club and know people at various levels in the organisation and they say its basically a ********. A complete mess of conflicting ambitions, incompetence and mismanagement.

These people might just be stirring and making it all up based on the current issues apparent to the outside world but it wouldn't surprise me. Who knows. I think that if EtH comes in, brings in good staff and tries unsuccessfully to change the club then we probably have our answer. He is by all accounts a good manager who can coach a team to play good football and he will have 10x the resources he had at Ajax. If he can't change anything or move the club in the right direction I will probably give up until the Glazers are gone.

Its the Ajax youth really that brought him success, well for a season, in the CL. Having 10x the resources is fine if spent properly. If you look at some of the rumours they arent what you'd call flashy names which is a positive for me. Im sure we will see a link to Lewandowski in the next few days with a bumper contract to balance it shortly though.

I know it’s not me you’re asking but I couldn’t be more than maybe 40% confident. There’s just something not quite right at the club and I’m not sure the best manager in the world could fix it currently. So I’ll expect the worst which means I’ll be even more happy if I’m wrong.
I just hope and pray the club don’t suffer another 26 year ‘hangover’ similar to when Sir Matt stepped down.

ETH to me isnt a big enough name to be tearing up the rule book if you know what i mean. I like him but has he earnt a shot at the United job?

Fans have to be optimistic. Don't forget we have Lingard, Pogba, Cavani, Mata definitely moving on and possibly Matic, Martial, vd Beek, Bailly and Ronaldo leaving. Thats a significant part of your squad which forces some new signings and an opportunity for some under 23 players to break through. Pogba has been a huge issue for this club since day one, why they resigned him is beyond me. I'll be glad when he's moved on. If we are getting Eric ten Haag then he comes with a strong coaching pedigree and a style of play we have a chance of a reset a'la Liverpool with Klopp. It won't be next season but I'll be happy if we see a plan and progress towards it.

Liverpools success isnt just Klopp and ETH isnt his level. Liverpool have a really good set up in the background.

 

[Thekwango]

I like him but has he earnt a shot at the United job?

who has? anyone even remotely available has their pros and cons. might as well be ETH (trying my best not to sound defeatist ).

iverpool have a really good set up in the background.

this is probably the biggest, most difficult part of the equation to be solved at UTD. a well run club can survive a massive managerial change, when Ferguson left it exposed how poorly the club was run. if klopp decided to walk away from anfield tomorrow morning, would liverpool be in uniteds state 10 years from now - i highly doubt it. - only my opinion of course, maybe there is some master plan at work in the background at old trafford and this has all been planned

p.s. don't ask me how i think they could fix cause i ain't got the foggiest!

 

[fez]

If klopp decided to walk away from anfield tomorrow morning, would liverpool be in uniteds state 10 years from now - i highly doubt it. - only my opinion of course, maybe there is some master plan at work in the background at old trafford and this has all been planned

I think people would be surprised how big an impact losing Klopp will have on Liverpool. IMO he has been the biggest "added value" manager for a long time. I don't think Liverpool would struggle but they would lose 5% or so of their current quality. Klopp is just the perfect modern manager.

 

[BaZ87]

I think people would be surprised how big an impact losing Klopp will have on Liverpool. IMO he has been the biggest "added value" manager for a long time. I don't think Liverpool would struggle but they would lose 5% or so of their current quality. Klopp is just the perfect modern manager.

Klopp's a genius and has had a huge impact on where we are but he's not a magician. From his first press-conference, where he was asked all the questions about our famous transfer committee to an article I read this morning specifically on how we'll cope after Klopp, one of the things that is clear is that Klopp/Liverpool aren't a one man band.

Klopp sets the identity of the side and how it's going to play and then has a huge structure around him that provides him with the tools to carry it out. Klopp doesn't lead training sessions - Pep Lijnders does that, inline with Klopp's ideas on how he wants the side to play. Klopp doesn't scout and identify transfer targets - we have a sporting director and huge recruitment team that identify players based on what Klopp needs. Similar with the academy, Klopp isn't hands on there. The academy runs itself in the main but he made sure there was a clear pathway between it and the first team - he insisted on the new training ground on the same site as the academy (at the expense of transfer funds) and brought in a dedicated coach to manage the transition of players from academy to first team, so that they're not only technically good enough but tactically ready to play how the first team plays.

There are loads of coaches that share Klopp's ideas on how to play, Rangnick being one and there are plenty of eggheads out there to build the recruitment team that Liverpool have and the overall structure at the club. Klopp's x factor though is his ability to motivate people. Both players and supporters buy-in to Klopp's ideas and will run through brick walls for him. Very few managers can get that from players and even fewer can do it without alienating as many players as they're motivating.

The other key to our success has been the trust and unity throughout the club. You can have the best plans in the world but they're no good if you don't stick to them or different parts of the club are working to different agendas. At the moment everybody at Liverpool is working together. When Klopp was favouring Brandt over Salah, he trusted the eggheads when they suggested Salah was the better fit. When we wanted to pay world record fees for a defender and keeper, the ownership trusted the eggheads that it would be money well spent and when Klopp insisted that the club needed to bring the first team training ground together with the academy the club backed him with £50-60m to do that. Compare and contrast that to LVG battling the club over how much time Utd players spend carrying out commercial duties or Mourinho fighting the club over transfers and it was the same at Liverpool with Rodgers tbf.

 

[Shamikebab]

Liverpool are far more likely to collapse without Klopp than City would without Pepe imo. I think he has added more in terms of players playing above their ability.

 

[Thekwango]

I think people would be surprised how big an impact losing Klopp will have on Liverpool. IMO he has been the biggest "added value" manager for a long time. I don't think Liverpool would struggle but they would lose 5% or so of their current quality. Klopp is just the perfect modern manager.

of course it would have an impact but it wouldn't be the huge, complete and utter collapse that has happened at OT. at least i don't think it would given the proper background setup they have in place.

 

[Thekwango]

The other key to our success has been the trust and unity throughout the club.

that's a massive thing that a lot of folks possibly seem to ignore or forget the importance of. trust and unity are not words that can be said of utd currently. without that trust, and certainly unity, in the processes that are in place and the goals and plans that want to be achieved anyone managing the team is facing a losing battle. as someone posted above, rumours of competing egos and ideas are no way to push the club forward. you could put the best manager in the world into the OT hotseat and if there's people round him and above him pulling in different directions with different agendas and ideas on how the club should move forward then absolutely nothing will change at the club.
course that's just me looking at it from the outside and i could equally be talking a load of toss

 

[BaZ87]

Liverpool are far more likely to collapse without Klopp than City would without Pepe imo. I think he has added more in terms of players playing above their ability.

Ignoring Liverpool for a moment, I think City face a huge challenge in replacing Pep. At Barca and Bayern there was more of a 'normal' structure to Pep's sides with actual strikers or at least out and out forwards playing in attacking positions. That's slowly changed during his time at City though and he's moved more and more to his dream of picking 11 midfielders. A lot gets said about them not having a centre forward this season but they don't really have or play with the wide forwards they once did either. They let Sane go and then his replacement in Torres, Sterling seems to be playing less than before and Mahrez is more a midfielder than out and out forward for me.

The way City are playing now is so unique, I'm struggling to think of another top level coach that could come in and continue from where Pep leaves off and the make up of there squad doesn't really allow for a huge move away. Obviously City will continue to spend huge amounts and could change that quickly but I think the transition will be a lot bigger than most think.

 

[fez]

Klopp's a genius and has had a huge impact on where we are but he's not a magician. From his first press-conference, where he was asked all the questions about our famous transfer committee to an article I read this morning specifically on how we'll cope after Klopp, one of the things that is clear is that Klopp/Liverpool aren't a one man band.

Hence why I said 5% rather than the 50% that United suffered after Fergie left

Liverpool have a fantastic setup and structure but I think people still underestimate:

The lure of playing under Klopp
The fact you don't seem to pay particularly competitive salaries compared to some other teams
Klopps ability to keep players generally very happy and motivated year after year
The team he has around him that might move on after he leaves

Who knows but I am excited to see what happens.

 

[BaZ87]

Hence why I said 5% rather than the 50% that United suffered after Fergie left

Liverpool have a fantastic setup and structure but I think people still underestimate:

The lure of playing under Klopp
The fact you don't seem to pay particularly competitive salaries compared to some other teams
Klopps ability to keep players generally very happy and motivated year after year
The team he has around him that might move on after he leaves

Who knows but I am excited to see what happens.

I wasn't disagreeing. I was just providing a more in depth look at the things that he does that are easy to replicate and what makes him special.

As for the salaries point, it's not true. Liverpool's wagebill has been broadly the same as Utd's and City's over the past few seasons. What Liverpool do maybe slightly differently but may have to change in the future, is pay a greater proportion of salaries in the form of bonuses. We pay top tier wages but we do so if the players perform as top tier players. This, I suspect, is the sticking point around Salah's contract renewal. I have no doubt that we're happy to pay Salah a top end figure of £400k per week but we're only happy to do it if he plays at the level to justify it, whereas Salah's agent will be pushing for less bonuses and more guaranteed.

Re the team around him, most of those are long term club appointments. The whole recruitment teams have been at the club pre Klopp (some in slightly different roles), likewise most of the coaching staff. Klopp only had his 2 first team coaches from Dortmund that came with him and one of those has left already.

Klopp's started dropping hints that he might renew his deal beyond 2024 but if he doesn't, I have a feeling Lijnders may be the guy that replaces him. The ownership likes consistency and he boxes off the continuity and unity issues we'll face, whether he has the character to be a first team coach though remains to be seen.

 

[C Kent]

.

Klopp's started dropping hints that he might renew his deal beyond 2024 but if he doesn't, I have a feeling Lijnders may be the guy that replaces him. The ownership likes consistency and he boxes off the continuity and unity issues we'll face, whether he has the character to be a first team coach though remains to be seen.

I don't think he'll renew, maybe take a year off and then go back to mainz before retiring. Who follows him is interesting, Lijnders ticks boxes, but does he have the ability to be the main man? I'm doubtful. Nagelsmann is the replacement when Klopp leaves for me, possibly Hansi Flick.

 

[adam cool dude]

A lot of delusional people here thinking Liverpool would be the same if Klopp left.

Bar Suarez Rodgers was bang average and the current owners were hardly any good before Klopp came. They had 5 years of nothing before Klopp came along. Qualified for the champions league once iirc.

City are exactly the same. They were spending big way before Guardiola came along. Won a league title on goal difference and a second title due to Fergies retirement and a very weak league at the time.

After seeing first hand as a United fan just how much of a god Fergie was and the following decade after. You must do all you can to keep what you have.

I am sure Klopp is here to stay as he will only be 55 this summer so still has a good ten years in him. On the other hand I can see Guardiola giving up if City fail to win the champions league soon.

 

[And]

That's the kind of thinking which will keep United where they currently are.

ETH to me isnt a big enough name to be tearing up the rule book if you know what i mean. I like him but has he earnt a shot at the United job?

He's only got another season left on his contract anyway and there's been no talk about him extending that. I don't see him doing anything other than seeing that out whatever happens in this season's CL. I would imagine his future beyond that contract, in his mind, depends on City packing the kitchen sink plus loose change in a jiffy, sending it Dortmund in return for one lightly-used and ready to mould into greatness Haarland.

I can see Guardiola giving up if City fail to win the champions league soon.