New Star Trek series - 2017

Uncle Petey · 21 Jul 2020 at 12:15

Richard - London said:
I liked Picard?

Are you not sure?

something daft already!! · 21 Jul 2020 at 12:30

Richard - London said:
I liked Picard?

Bless.

JRS · 21 Jul 2020 at 17:05

Richard - London said:
I liked Picard?

You're going to find that this isn't a popular opinion on here

I like it too, although it has plenty of faults. It was still easily better than Discovery for me.

Allnamestaken · 22 Jul 2020 at 02:56

Better than discovery? ARE YOU MAD?!

JRS · 22 Jul 2020 at 07:08

Allnamestaken said:
Better than discovery? ARE YOU MAD?!

Mad? Nah, I'm furious about how awful STD was

SixTwoSix · 22 Jul 2020 at 07:59

Let's be honest, we're just comparing which was was least bad, not which one was best.

JRS · 22 Jul 2020 at 08:19

Picard at least has little moments and scenes that elevate it somewhat. Plus a cast where 3/4 of them actually can act.

STD latterly had Anson Mount's Pike...and that's about it for good points. But hey, who knows? Maybe the jump to the (even more far) future will be the making of the show. Maybe they'll have sent SMG to acting classes before the COVID-shutdown. Maybe they found a writer whose work doesn't make me want to gnaw my own arm off.

Maybe.

Allnamestaken · 22 Jul 2020 at 15:05

Haha, yeah i guess your right Six.

james.miller · 22 Jul 2020 at 15:18

I've been watching my way through Voyager recently and MY GOD there's a lot of filler there. A lot of it is just dreadful, like a space soap. A bad one. I don't remember it being that bad?!

MarkA · 22 Jul 2020 at 15:21

There is filler, but there always is in a 20+ episode series.
I've seen them all lately and didn't think they were THAT bad overall, it was always fun learning the characters - I guess, when you re-watch them you're not learning them again since you already know them, so they may feel worse than they originally were.

something daft already!! · 22 Jul 2020 at 15:24

Fairhaven episodes were possible the worst ever Star Trek episodes, excluding all of Picard of course.

JRS · 22 Jul 2020 at 15:53

james.miller said:
I've been watching my way through Voyager recently and MY GOD there's a lot of filler there. A lot of it is just dreadful, like a space soap. A bad one. I don't remember it being that bad?!

Yeah, a lot of Voyager simply wasn't very good. Score another one for behind-the-scenes trouble:

TVTropes said:
Just getting Star Trek: Voyager to air was incredibly problematic. Originally, Genevieve Bujold was to play Captain Janeway, but had no experience with a television schedule. Reportedly, there were also creative differences: Bujold had a habit of ad-libbing emotions and differing from the director's and producers' vision of the character. According to Rick Berman, no one on set believed she would last a week, but had been brought in by the studio as a 'name' actor for the role. On the second day of shooting, she walked off the set, and did not return. (Making at least one crew member in the betting pool extremely happy).

This caused a chain reaction of problems: The crew filmed what they could while trying to recast Janeway, but, being Star Trek, they sort of needed to have The Captain be prominent in the first episode. This led to production shutting down for two weeks. When they finally got Kate Mulgrew for the role, after viewing the rushes, they noted that the stage lighting didn't mix with Mulgrew's ginger hair, creating a blinding distraction in every shot. This prompted more reshoots (with a severe "bun" hairstyle on Mulgrew), most of them on-location, which were no longer available and thus more expensive. A favorite joke on set was wondering if the pilot would be finished before the series ended. Adjusted for inflation, Voyager's pilot cost more than Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

And that was just the start of the issues. Wildly inconsistent writing, actors rapidly falling out of love with the show (Robert Beltran in particular, who only took the job to work alongside Bujold), tensions between actors and tensions between writing staff (it ended the writing partnership between Ron Moore and Brannon Braga)...

james.miller · 22 Jul 2020 at 16:21

The pilot cost more than Wrath of Khan? HA. I didn't know that, wow.

PlacidCasual · 22 Jul 2020 at 16:41

Voyager is maybe not a consistently good as the last few series of DS9 which had a fairly compelling arc. But one of the story arcs for Seven and the Doctor were very good and it’s best was very very good. In a 24 episodes a year format many writer and director combinations get a chance to see what works and also pander to the cast a bit so there can be a lot of filler. But Voyager gets a bad rap I reckon, It’s best is as good as anything in Start Trek.

SixTwoSix · 22 Jul 2020 at 16:53

PlacidCasual said:
Voyager is maybe not a consistently good as the last few series of DS9 which had a fairly compelling arc.

After DS9 copied B5 you mean

*hides*

JRS · 22 Jul 2020 at 17:03

james.miller said:
The pilot cost more than Wrath of Khan? HA. I didn't know that, wow.

It's either a reflection of how obsessively frugal they were making TWoK after the first film went wildly over budget, or a reflection of how much the troubled production of Voyager's pilot added to the series costs. YMMV

***edit***

SixTwoSix said:
After DS9 copied B5 you mean *hides*

I reckon that argument in particular has been absolutely done to death

So I shall content myself by repeating what I said last time this came up - the two series might have started out with a similar premise, but they evolved in very different directions and I like them both

SixTwoSix · 22 Jul 2020 at 17:34

JRS said:
I reckon that argument in particular has been absolutely done to death So I shall content myself by repeating what I said last time this came up - the two series might have started out with a similar premise, but they evolved in very different directions and I like them both

It was a shameless bait, i also like them both. B5 more of course, as it's got folks who can actually act well, outside of a few DS9 outliers

JRS · 22 Jul 2020 at 17:48

SixTwoSix said:
It was a shameless bait, i also like them both. B5 more of course, as it's got folks who can actually act well, outside of a few DS9 outliers

B5's best actor was a Trek import (Walter Koenig)

SixTwoSix · 22 Jul 2020 at 18:00

JRS said:
B5's best actor was a Trek import (Walter Koenig)

Yeah, he was one of the best, he'll always be Bester before Chekov to me.

In all seriousness though, across either B5 or DS9, Andreas Katsulas was god tier and felt sorry for anyone acting across from him.

JRS · 22 Jul 2020 at 18:10

SixTwoSix said:
Yeah, he was one of the best, he'll always be Bester before Chekov to me.

In all seriousness though, across either B5 or DS9, Andreas Katsulas was god tier and felt sorry for anyone acting across from him.

Katsulas truly was a great. Also a Trek actor before/concurrent with B5 - as the recurring Romulan antagonist Tomalak in TNG