New Star Trek series - 2017

She's responsible for the war because she told her Captain that killing the Klingon would make him a martyr which would lead to war, and that they should capture him.

But her emotions got the better of her when Captain Georgio was stabbed and she switched her Phaser from stun to kill and...made him a martyr.

Thats not true at all. They were at war already with the Klingons and making him a martyr would just galvanise the Klingons efforts. Michael was also the one that made that claim. The captain wanted to take out the ship completely and Michael was the one who said not to because it would potentially allow them to defuse the situation if they captured him.

The only thing that would have avoided a war at that point was to follow Michaels advice and take out the klingon ship before all the houses showed up. The captain stopped that and war became inevitable at that point. The only reason Michael is blamed for the war is because the writers decided so. There is no logic to it. In reality she would probably be court-marshalled but potentially let off in light of her actions being in the best interests of the federation and the fact that if she was allowed to carry them out there would almost certainly be no war and thousands of lives would have been saved.

As the captain of Discovery said at the end of the episode, what she did was the correct course of action and the unwillingness of the federation to allow captains/officers to think and act on their own knowledge/views was the issue.
 
Thats not true at all. They were at war already with the Klingons and making him a martyr would just galvanise the Klingons efforts. Michael was also the one that made that claim. The captain wanted to take out the ship completely and Michael was the one who said not to because it would potentially allow them to defuse the situation if they captured him.

The only thing that would have avoided a war at that point was to follow Michaels advice and take out the klingon ship before all the houses showed up. The captain stopped that and war became inevitable at that point. The only reason Michael is blamed for the war is because the writers decided so. There is no logic to it. In reality she would probably be court-marshalled but potentially let off in light of her actions being in the best interests of the federation and the fact that if she was allowed to carry them out there would almost certainly be no war and thousands of lives would have been saved.

As the captain of Discovery said at the end of the episode, what she did was the correct course of action and the unwillingness of the federation to allow captains/officers to think and act on their own knowledge/views was the issue.

Eh? They weren't at war already. They hadn't seen the Klingons in ages and the Klingons had no interest in uniting to fight the federation, they were too busy with eachother.

Then wothisface comes along with his ancient ship with a plan to unite the houses by calling them together, luring the federation fleet in by taking out their relay attacking them and kicking it off. Despite the battle is wasn't all out war until whathisface died and albino whathisface does the shouty thing and they all join in.

Starfleet doesn't know about whathisface and his cunning plan, all they know is one of their officers mutinied in order to fire first on a Klingon ship. That failed and the Klingons attacked anyway - she might have got away with it at this point as she was right, they were about to open up on them.

But then she boards their ship to capture their leader and instead kills him enraging the Klingons even more and guaranteeing the whole incident went from a battle to full war. Had she not killed him the other houses may have just left and it'd have been the end of it.

She caused it, it wasn't necessarily her fault and what she did wasn't wrong but she was definitely the catalyst for it. Throw in the mutiny and she's really screwed.
 
Eh? They weren't at war already. They hadn't seen the Klingons in ages and the Klingons had no interest in uniting to fight the federation, they were too busy with eachother.

Then wothisface comes along with his ancient ship with a plan to unite the houses by calling them together, luring the federation fleet in by taking out their relay attacking them and kicking it off. Despite the battle is wasn't all out war until whathisface died and albino whathisface does the shouty thing and they all join in.

What was it at that point. The klingons had killed god knows how many star fleet people and ships and the houses had united behind him to wage war on the federation. T'Kuvma lives and they fight a war behind him. T'Kuvma dies and they fight it without him but for him. The only way out was to capture him and humiliate him.

Starfleet doesn't know about whathisface and his cunning plan, all they know is one of their officers mutinied in order to fire first on a Klingon ship. That failed and the Klingons attacked anyway - she might have got away with it at this point as she was right, they were about to open up on them.

His plan is irrelevant and the entirety of his plan was to call all of the klingon houses together under the beacon and start a war on the federation. He didn't plan to die.

But then she boards their ship to capture their leader and instead kills him enraging the Klingons even more and guaranteeing the whole incident went from a battle to full war. Had she not killed him the other houses may have just left and it'd have been the end of it.

This doesn't make sense. He called the houses to war basically, attacks the federation fleet and wins the battle. He isn't going to say "good job lads, as you were". This was a rallying call at the start of a war. It was a show of power to the other houses and a **** you to the federation. The houses will not unite under him simply because he won a battle, they want a war, T'Kuvma wants a war.

She caused it, it wasn't necessarily her fault and what she did wasn't wrong but she was definitely the catalyst for it. Throw in the mutiny and she's really screwed.

She didn't cause anything. If she was not there, there would have been the same outcome. The only difference would be that perhaps they would have simply blown up T'Kuvmas ship instead of trying to take him hostage at the end of the battle.

There were literally 2 basic outcomes from the very start.

1. They take out T'Kuvma before any more klingons get there and war is probably averted.
2. War with the Klingons.
 
Thing is, she's as much infamous in-story so far as the one who started the war with the Klingons as she is infamous as "Starfleet's first mutineer" (which is still barely believable, but whatever). But one of the rather glaring problems with that is that she wasn't responsible for starting the war with the Klingons. The war would have happened whether Burnham was there or not. Yes, she killed a Klingon - but it was in self-defence, against a Klingon who attacked her while they were in Federation territory. Yes, she tried to fire on them before they could fire on the Shenzhou - but she was stopped from doing so. The Klingons were going to attack the Federation no matter what, and you'd have thought that at least someone in this story might have worked that one out by now.

I'm surprised at how easily the Federation were tricked into war because of a broken comms satellite. They should have bailed out of the confrontation, fallen back and then regrouped with bigger numbers. If the Klingons had chased them over the neutral zone, the Federation would have had the moral high ground to defend themselves, would have had more ships and greater firepower, would have had better supply lines while the Klingons would have had theirs stretched into Federation space. All those other Klingon houses ran to answer the light of Kahless on the border, but they wouldn't have come into Federation space, and they wouldn't have formed up together back into a single empire if there was nothing there for them to fight.

It's like the Klingons were the brainy, clever, manipulative ones, and the Federation were the stupid warmongers who charged in without thinking. What was the Federation defending? Not a colony, they were light years away. It was an unnecessary conflict that took place where it was unfavourable to the Federation.

As for Burnham, she did what she did to protect her ship and captain. Mutineer? More like disobeying a direct order, assaulting a senior officer, etc, but the logs and report will show that in the end that she might have been doing the right thing, and the Federation response was the wrong thing, getting their asses kicked and reuniting the Klingons in a war against the Federation. It convenient for the story that the happy-clappy "never shoot first" Starfleet suddenly can't see things from Burnham's point of view, or that she might have been the one prevented from making the right decision under the circumstances to save the ship and prevent war.

And don't get me started on Georgiou deciding the two of them were the best people to launch a two man assault on a Klingon capital ship to kidnap it's commander. That was always going to end badly. You would have sent a security team or marine squad, not just the two physically smallest officers trained for command rather than ship assault and combat. No wonder Georgiou got killed.
 
Well I've watched the first three episodes and will probably struggle to watch anything further (Big fan of DS9 and TNG)

Pro's:
Space battles looked good.
Ship interiors
Actually liked the Maudlin Science / First Officer
Uniforms
Mutilated bodies / darker tone
Captains Lorca's dark tone

Cons:
Lead character has no warmth or humanity (supposedly due to being on vulcan) coupled with a very irritating name
Multiple different alien races none of which are actually part of the federation but apparently serve on a Starfleet ship, why no member species apart from humans?
Klingons look like priests, not physically imposing warriors
Awful acting from the injured ensign who goes to the brig and gets sucked out into space
Found the Shenzou's captains asian / english accent grating
Space Fungus being used to achieve faster than warp travel....... (this stupidity really turned me off the series)
How can the ship have warp engines and test a new propulsion system at the same time (wouldn't they test this with an automated drone first?, why are they testing it on the front lines of a war zone?)
Holodeck / Phone booth in engineering used to 'show' lead character the possibilities of the tech.
"Black alert"
Episode 3 could have been Episode 1 with a flash back to episode 1&2 would still be cliche but think would flow better.
If the prison shuttle changed course and the Discovery comes to save them why did it let the pilot get killed via the space eels.
Court Marshall admirals faces / room being blacked out for 'effect'...
Obvious gay science couple is obvious.
Reciting lines from Alice in Wonderland before later showing she has it as a book (but the book scene in before the Jefferies tube scene and it makes more sense)
No attractive girls to look at.

Guess that puts me in the JRS camp of opinions really. The thing that made Star Trek good was good writing and characters, you cant rely on flash sets, lens flare and pew pew space battles to carry a series. Some of the best episodes / story arcs of Trek are commentaries on current society with a Science fiction spin. Stories about Terrorism, Climate change, Political Upheaval, Over population, Consumerism, etc, etc in the future would be far more interesting than i suspect this series will be
 
Well seeing as this is only 3 episodes in, you cannot say if they will or won't fleshing out the characters more. They were usually mostly filler episodes though as they used to have to make 26 episodes per season, where now they concentrate the budget into 10-15 episodes. You have to admit, there were very many terrible episodes of TNG (Pretty much series 1,2 and 7), DS9 and Voyager.
 
Well seeing as this is only 3 episodes in, you cannot say if they will or won't fleshing out the characters more. They were usually mostly filler episodes though as they used to have to make 26 episodes per season, where now they concentrate the budget into 10-15 episodes. You have to admit, there were very many terrible episodes of TNG (Pretty much series 1,2 and 7), DS9 and Voyager.

Definitely, Remember the episode with the TNG Ghost who shagged Beverly Crusher? Remember the Leprichaun in DS9? Etc etc.
 
So far anyway, The Orville seems like a better Trek series than this Trek series.

While I enjoy the Orville, it does feel like TNG but the humour is often cringe worthy. I kind of wish they would drop the so called humour part and just do a straight homage.
 
I've not completely written this series off, just not sure I can bring myself to watch any more of it unless i have a lot of spare time and it improves in further episodes (will definitively be keeping an eye on this thread for insight)

Granted there were plenty of duff episodes in all series of trek. DS9 and TNG for me got it right most of the time, Voy very much hit and miss but some good ones (Year of Hell, Equinox)

Definitely a +1 for me in the Beverly Crusher fan club.
 
What was it at that point. The klingons had killed god knows how many star fleet people and ships and the houses had united behind him to wage war on the federation. T'Kuvma lives and they fight a war behind him. T'Kuvma dies and they fight it without him but for him. The only way out was to capture him and humiliate him.

I meant prior to the relay being blown they were not at war, so Burnham attempting to mutiny and fire the first shot make it look like she wanted to kick it off when you add in her going over there and killing their leader.

I don't think all out war was inevitable until the leader was killed. Not all the houses were behind him despite some being interested in what he had to say. Sure they opened up on the federation fleet but since when have Klingons been shy about having a barny? They didn't seem to get really angry until their leader was killed.
Whether there was about to be full war or not, him being killed ruined any initial chance for peace. That's how Starfleet obviously see it. We, as viewers know it wasn't as simple as that.

Anyways, sounds like I'm really defending it. It's certainly not perfect! They REALLY need to make sure they have a very good physicist on hand for script reviews as Star Trek has always had one foot in magical technology but the other grounded in reality. Having a literal torch show up light years away is just very very dumb. They could have gotten away with, with a single line of techno babble.
Episode 3 was enjoyable too - as others have said tng, voy and ds9 all had slow starts
 
It's funny people writing this off after 3 episodes.

Almost the entire first series of TNG is rank awful.

Yeah, surprised people not giving it a chance. Never felt season 1 of TNG awful either, especially for an 80's show, but it sure did improve a lot.


Definitely, Remember the episode with the TNG Ghost who shagged Beverly Crusher? Remember the Leprichaun in DS9? Etc etc.

Haha. Yeah, I remember that :D


So far anyway, The Orville seems like a better Trek series than this Trek series.
My missus said the same and she is also a Star Trek fan. I do not agree though.

First and last time I was ever jealous of a ghost ;)

Knocked out many many many to Beverley :D

Lol :D
 
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