New Star Trek series - 2017

Nitefly said:
I think the only good character, perhaps because of the comic relief he brings, is the cynical first officer.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

None of the characters apart from him feel natural. Then again go re-watch the first few episodes of all the trek series, theyre all pretty cringey.

So, some bits I dont like

1) How does a space creature re-inflate in the vacuum of space with no water around to do it?
2) Telepathic links that can span light years... jesus this really feels insulting
3) Swearing... was put in purely for the media hype
4) The whole spore-network concept literally breaks the universe
5) Forced characters, no flow, no natural flow
6) Klingon talking scenes are long and boring
7) Some of the CGI looks like its from the 80's
8) Breath samples for door locks WTF
9) Inserted generic cast to appease the social justice retards. Black woman, check. Gay couple, check. Ginger autism cadet, check
10) Starfleet leaving ships floating adrift or destroying them as if they literally churn them out on a daily basis despite being in war and struggling with losses
 
I'm pretty conflicted about this series but am enjoying it, quite confusing.

Quite like some of the characters and the look of the show, but find myself wanting a more traditional Trek mentality rather than the enthically questionable free for all it seems to be. Just seems contrary to everything that we have seen before. We have had a few milder swear words in the previous 4 episodes but this weeks was well out of place, dissapointing as I watch this with my daughter and I don't want her exposed to that. It devalues the show too in my opinion. Beside that, solid enough episode.
 
kindai said:
Agreed.

None of the characters apart from him feel natural. Then again go re-watch the first few episodes of all the trek series, theyre all pretty cringey.

So, some bits I dont like
Click to expand...

I'm surprised at the comments about the first officer, he feels natural and is comic relief? I can't think of anything funny he's done off the top of my head and he feels anything but natural to me. He seems to be in there for the head tendril crap and it's infuriatingly stupid. The idea that a species on a planet could detect say a smell downwind and know it's a predator so give a warning... okay... but he can do that on a ship in a sealed environment across a huge distance when in no way could a species evolve to do this on a planet. Everything about his character is forced as hell and basically despite being on the initial ship for 7 years he had no faith in the captain and acted like a giant ***** rather than a science officer with many years experience.

I think he's amongst the most irritating characters. He basically brings nothing to the crew except to be a downer and think everything is dangerous.

When I think back to DS9 or any other similar series, the characters all do their jobs, are trained and make sense, they also have particular character traits that sometimes effect their job but they aren't all just that particular character trait and it doesn't get in the way of every single thing they say and do.

It's akin to, comedy series often start with whole characters with their particular character traits, in Friends, Joey was a bit stupid but it was part of his character, Pheobe was 'quirky/weird' but not all the time, it was great but by the end of the series when it was pretty crappy, Pheobe was only quirky/weird, Joey was only stupid, CHandler was only sarcastic, Monica was only crazy/ocd about everything.

This is where this series is failing, it's jumped straight to the everyone is their single character quick/flaw all the time with no exception. No one acts 'normal', none of them seem like good officers, they are constantly dealing with that one character trait they've been given. That is why all the characters suck, not a single one is believable or natural.

I mean the science nerd is ridiculous, he acts like a weirdo in every single scene and that bit where he threatened to leave and take all his technology with him... the most cringeworthy thing anyone outside of Michael has done. I think I said at the time it was like a teenager tantrum I expect to see on some CW show. How could a trained star fleet officer who went through the academy and has served on a ship for a long time be stupid enough to think he could do that?

Go back to lets say, Worf (who I never really liked, the Klingon honour bs is one of my most hated things about startrek) was a normal productive sensible part of the crew who occasionally acted differently due to being Klingon and occasionally had episodes focused on Klingons. He wasn't just this Klingon guy who every single sentence and every single choice was through that one part of his character, being a Klingon. He was a trained starfleet officer, he was good at his job hence getting such a posting. The characters on this ship are so painfully one dimensional and seem incapable of having ever made it in starfleet.
 
I think you should watch TNG season 1 again, Worf does nothing other than get beaten up easily and suggest they shoot everything. He is completely one dimensional until he finally gets something to do in episode 20.

You are comparing the characters after the first 5 episodes of a new show, against characters after nearly 200 episodes of TNG
 
Last edited:
SlyReaper said:
It might be that he's been conditioned to THINK he's human, Manchurian Candidate style. Remember the last episode, she told him he'd have to give up everything? Perhaps "everything" includes his memory and his identity? At least until he hears some trigger phrase or something.
Click to expand...

Gosh, that italian family at the next table sure is quiet.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I'm surprised at the comments about the first officer, he feels natural and is comic relief? I can't think of anything funny he's done off the top of my head and he feels anything but natural to me. He seems to be in there for the head tendril crap and it's infuriatingly stupid. The idea that a species on a planet could detect say a smell downwind and know it's a predator so give a warning... okay... but he can do that on a ship in a sealed environment across a huge distance when in no way could a species evolve to do this on a planet. Everything about his character is forced as hell and basically despite being on the initial ship for 7 years he had no faith in the captain and acted like a giant ***** rather than a science officer with many years experience.

I think he's amongst the most irritating characters. He basically brings nothing to the crew except to be a downer and think everything is dangerous.
Click to expand...
He said his species was raised and kept alive due to its ability to "sense death" (I'm also fairly sure they didn't mention anything about a smell downwind - my interpretation was that it was more of a sixth sense thing). It hasn't said that's the reason they have him on the ship, that's just a skill he has. That said, I suppose this skill taken in isolation is perhaps not too far removed from Troy's skills on TNG (you'll recall she could sense general feelings across large distances).

As for him being amusing, it's his lacking in social skills and bluntness that are amusing - his lack of awareness that what he says is often callous. Although I didn't think anyone here said he was 'funny', if there is a distinction to be made :p

Yes, it would be bad if they don't flesh him (or the other characters) out, of course. We are only five episodes in so I've reserving judgement.
 
VincentHanna said:
I think you should watch TNG season 1 again, Worf does nothing other than get beaten up easily and suggest they shoot everything. He is completely one dimensional until he finally gets something to do in episode 20.

You are comparing the characters after the first 5 episodes of a new show, against characters after nearly 200 episodes of TNG
Click to expand...


He's the security officer whose job is too shoot things and act as security, getting beaten up a lot is to do with his job. Trying to fight, I can't recall, Q and others. That has nothing to do with Klingon honour. Every episode wasn't, "I'm Klingon, lets shoot those guys before talking to them", it was "that looks scary, I think the best action here is to shoot those dudes".

Characters are characters, how they act is how they act. You know more parts of a character after 200 episodes, you might learn why a character behaves the way he does through being told a story after 100 episodes, but how they behave should be consistent throughout in good writing. The character doesn't change, your understanding of the character does. This is the opposite, you learn one small facet of their character, every single thing they say and do is based around that small piece of their character, everything else they should be is absent. None of the crew act like trained starfleet officers... despite all going through training to act as starfleet officers. You've got the weird autistic type chick, the wants to be vulcan chick(who having spent 7+ years in starfleet with further time before that in training.... acts like she left Vulcan the day before and despite the fact she is human and with no reason to behave like a vulcan.

With Worf, as Klingon episodes came up, for instance visiting their homeworld, or having a Klingon onboard he acted differently around the Klingons, or on a Klingon ship, but he acted primarily as a security officer on TNG and other parts of his character became known. That isn't the same situation at all, it's not even close.

I'd also recommend you watch even the first episode of TNG, he didn't overreact when Q appeared, he didn't shoot him, he acted like a starfleet officer and he asked permission from the captain to attempt to remove him. Troy sensed something strange, because she is empathic, but the whole episode isn't just her sensing things, not even close. In Discovery Michael acts like this semi Vulcan person in every part of the episode, she's awkward, behaves strangely and acts as a vulcan unable to control her emotions, as well as telepathic contact with another vulcan across a freaking galaxy. She didn't behave like a starfleet officer, everything was based around this one part of her character.
 
Nope, worf was a lieutenant junior in season one and was made acting chief of security when Tasha Yar died.


S1 of tng was dreadful in every sense, oh and


15 minutes of Worf being put in his place :D
 
TNG's opening season still managed some bright spots. 11001001, The Arsenal of Freedom, Heart of Glory and Conspiracy were all very good. With a few tweaks (mostly revolving around removing Wesley Crusher from the story!) quite a few other episodes could have been elevated as well. There's only really Code of Honor, Justice and Angel One that are unsalvageable - especially Code of Honor, which should have been strangled at birth and is easily one of the worst episodes of any of the Star Trek series. Even Spock's Brain from TOS is more watchable :D

Shifting gears for a moment, I was reading an interview with Ira Steven Behr (Deep Space Nine's showrunner) the other day and this amused me:

Anthony Pascale: How much have you been following the development of Star Trek: Discovery?

Ira Steven Behr: Virtually not at all.

Anthony: Well the people behind the show talk about how it is a different kind of Star Trek show and specifically because it has a diverse cast lead by an African-American, it is heavily serialized with the a major war that involves the Klingons as a backdrop, and it breaks the Roddenberry rule of no conflict within the characters. So, I was just wondering, does that sound familiar to you?

Ira: You know, this might sound shocking, but it does. It does sound familiar.
Click to expand...

I mean...this is pretty much bang on, Discovery is only boldly going in DS9's footsteps. Black lead - check. Conflict between characters - check. Same-sex relationship on-screen - check (the love story of Rejoined that involves Dax and another Trill with a female host). War with Klingons - check (season 4). Serialisation - check, multiple story arcs that last for more than a season and in the case of Sisko's role as Emissary last right through all seven seasons.
 
JRS said:
TNG's opening season still managed some bright spots. 11001001, The Arsenal of Freedom, Heart of Glory and Conspiracy were all very good. With a few tweaks (mostly revolving around removing Wesley Crusher from the story!) quite a few other episodes could have been elevated as well. There's only really Code of Honor, Justice and Angel One that are unsalvageable - especially Code of Honor, which should have been strangled at birth and is easily one of the worst episodes of any of the Star Trek series. Even Spock's Brain from TOS is more watchable :D

Shifting gears for a moment, I was reading an interview with Ira Steven Behr (Deep Space Nine's showrunner) the other day and this amused me:

I mean...this is pretty much bang on, Discovery is only boldly going in DS9's footsteps. Black lead - check. Conflict between characters - check. Same-sex relationship on-screen - check (the love story of Rejoined that involves Dax and another Trill with a female host). War with Klingons - check (season 4). Serialisation - check, multiple story arcs that last for more than a season and in the case of Sisko's role as Emissary last right through all seven seasons.
Click to expand...

I was going to say Babylon 5. From where DS9 nicked most of it's ideas.
 
We-e-e-ll...even JMS says that he's sure the producers of DS9 didn't see any of the B5 pitch to Paramount. There are some striking similarities of course.
 
JRS said:
We-e-e-ll...even JMS says that he's sure the producers of DS9 didn't see any of the B5 pitch to Paramount. There are some striking similarities of course.
Click to expand...

We-e-e-ll.. They did nick it from JMS. Here's the paragraph from the Wikipedia article with more context:

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine controversy
The pilot episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) aired just weeks before Babylon 5 debuted. Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski indicated that Paramount Television was aware of his concept as early as 1989,[89] when he attempted to sell the show to the studio, and provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and plot synopses for 22 "or so planned episodes taken from the overall course of the planned series".[90][91]

Paramount declined to produce Babylon 5, but later announced Deep Space Nine was in development, two months after Warner Bros. announced its plans for Babylon 5. Straczynski stated that, even though he was confident that Deep Space Nine producer/creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had not seen this material, he suspected that Paramount executives used his bible and scripts to steer development of Deep Space Nine.[92][93][94] He and Warner did not file suit against Paramount, largely because Straczynski didn't see it as a productive option, with negative repercussions for both TV series. In 1993 he responded to a Deep Space Nine fan who saw the lack of legal action as proof that Straczynski's allegation was unfounded, "If there is any (to use your term) winking and nudging going on, it's on the level of 'Okay, YOU (Paramount) know what happened, and *I* know what happened, but let's try to be grownup about it for now,' though I must say that the shapechanging thing nearly tipped me back over the edge again. If there are no more major similarities that crop up in the next few weeks or months, with luck we can continue that way."[94]
Click to expand...
 
Come on Steampunk, your own bloody quote there agrees with me! "...he was confident that Deep Space Nine producer/creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had not seen this material".

Yes, B5 was shopped to Paramount who didn't take it on. Yes, DS9 shares a number of similar ideas and themes. But B5 and DS9 turned into very different shows. I like them both.
 
JRS said:
Come on Steampunk, your own bloody quote there agrees with me! "...he was confident that Deep Space Nine producer/creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had not seen this material".

Yes, B5 was shopped to Paramount who didn't take it on. Yes, DS9 shares a number of similar ideas and themes. But B5 and DS9 turned into very different shows. I like them both.
Click to expand...

Stop taking that one half sentence out of context - read the surrounding info. At least read to the end of the sentence: "...he suspected that Paramount executives used his bible and scripts to steer development of Deep Space Nine." You don't think the Paramount executives who had all JMS' content didn't have any influence? The fact they came very close to suing?

It's the same story where a film/TV company gets a pitch, doesn't want to pay for it, and steals the idea wholesale with the minimum number of changes to try and avoid legal action. It happens all the time. Paramount obviously wanted B5, but decided to wrap it up in the Star Trek IP they already owned and keep more of the money for themselves.
 
Steampunk said:
You don't think the Paramount executives who had all JMS' content didn't have any influence?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that at all. I'm quite sure that Paramount could have offered up ideas to the DS9 showrunners that were based off of what they'd been pitched with Babylon 5. But I don't believe that the DS9 showrunners went around ripping off B5 wholesale like some fans of that show believe!
 
Question:

They needed 'Ripper' to do the nav calculations for longer jumps, because the further they went the more unpredictable their location would be after the jump.

But they jump instantly, so why couldn't they just do 100 small jumps in one go to ensure they get where they need to?
 
VincentHanna said:
Question:

They needed 'Ripper' to do the nav calculations for longer jumps, because the further they went the more unpredictable their location would be after the jump.

But they jump instantly, so why couldn't they just do 100 small jumps in one go to ensure they get where they need to?
Click to expand...
Apart from, it would take longer. No idea.

These things are usually done to make something work for them in a script anyway. That is why I try not to over think when watching sci-fi shows as I would end up enjoying them a lot less. I just assume in that time and universe there is a reason for it and let it be :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom