NHS=Negligent Health Service

b0rn2sk8 said:
But nothing you’ve written actually disputes what I’d written.
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"Underfunded" - £212 BILLION, WITH A "B" - thats £212,000,000,000.00 in 2020/21 for 56 million people (£212B is just for NHS England) or £3785 per person which is higher than the G7 average and only just behind Germany which has far higher taxes to pay for it's far better health service.

LOL "underfunded" you're funny :D
 
ianh said:
"Underfunded" :D - Just in England alone we spent £212.1 Billion (with a "B") in 2020/21 which is 10% of our GDP just on the NHS, with 1 "manager" for every 3 doctors or 10 nurses - there's the bloat (approx 35k managers for 100k doctors and 300k nurses) and those 35k managers will all need office staff under them etc increasing the bloat further.

The OG NHS from the 50's, when it really was still a beacon of "Universal healthcare done right", was run differently so maybe we should go back to that OG setup i.e. back to basics. It can't be any worse than the middle-manager heavy NHS we have currently which devours so much money yet gets apparently worse and worse whilst wasting so much of our hard earned cash (£2.4 Billion lost in negligence claims, £300 Million in unused drugs etc).

We need to figure out "why" we need so much management, we need to remove those reasons (get the Gov to bugger off and leave it alone) and the NHS needs to focused 100% on healthcare for the sick and ill (physically/mentally) and nothing else i.e. no "cosmetic" stuff unless it's part of recovering from an injury or illness (for example burns, reconstructions etc) so it'd be no boob jobs to just make someone feel happy but it'd OK for breast cancer victims etc.

Everyone can see that the NHS is close to toppling over yet no-one is willing to make the tough decisions necessary to "save" it, because those decisions (mass job loses in office staff etc) are too "hard" for a Government to stomach, so they all just keep kicking the can further down the road until it finally topples over and then we're all screwed.
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Care records departments require managers, as does estates, IT, finance, clinical coding, switchboard, research/library services, HR, information governance, referral services, porters, the many various reception staff, ward managers, legal, senior leadership - the list goes on.

And that's just functions for what people would consider a regular hospital, and they're all needed.
 
Does OP work for the Torys? trying to rubbish the amazing NHS to put it in peoples minds to privatise?

Nothing wrong with the NHS - everything wrong with the Torys who underfund it - get a gov in who will fund it properly and majorly invest and it will be the best in the world.
 
And yet just a 18 months ago it was the second lowest in the G7 and it’s been consistently low for a decade.

In 2017 it was barely average across the entire OECD with many European countries being 20-30% higher.

A last minute funding boost for 2021 isn’t going to improve outcomes overnight when there is a decade of neglect that needs fixing and years of backlogs that need to be dealt with.
 
ianh said:
"Underfunded" - £212 BILLION, WITH A "B" - thats £212,000,000,000.00 in 2020/21 for 56 million people (£212B is just for NHS England) or £3785 per person which is higher than the G7 average and only just behind Germany which has far higher taxes to pay for it's far better health service.

LOL "underfunded" you're funny :D
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That £212 billion includes an extra £60 billion of COVID funding. On "normal" healthcare Germany spends around 50% more per person.
 
FoxEye said:
Gastritis and gastroenteritis, IBS, Crohns... none of them are trivial complaints. They can be sodding painful. Crippling, even.
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Don't tell me about the pains and how agonising they are. I told one of the ambulance crew that you'd confess to anything just for them to stop. All I wanted was to be kept in overnight for observation and to prove that I was legit. When I fianlly did get admitted to hospital (at least Wythenshaw hospital actually took it seriously enough to keep me in overnight). Turned out I was also suffering from dehydration (with the amount of fluid I was taking with the paracetomol) and it took a day to get my heart rate down to normal.
When you have to be taken to hospital in an ambulance for the same time twice in the same week there's got to be something wrong.
 
So how much did you lose in lost earnings while you were in hospital or unable to work due to not being treated effectively?

I get wanting to be put back in the position you would have been otherwise, but I don't understand the logic of wanting to sue the NHS, meaning that the already overstretched and under-resourced services are even more overstretched and under-resourced so they end up doing even worse the next time you need them? Way to score an own goal :cry:
 
ianh said:
"Underfunded" - £212 BILLION, WITH A "B" - thats £212,000,000,000.00 in 2020/21 for 56 million people (£212B is just for NHS England) or £3785 per person which is higher than the G7 average and only just behind Germany which has far higher taxes to pay for it's far better health service.

LOL "underfunded" you're funny :D
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lol CAVEMAN SEE BIG NUMBER, CAVEMAN IMPRESSED. CAVEMAN UNAWARE OF THE RELATIVITY OF BIG NUMBER VERSUS OTHER CAVEMEN.
 
Scania said:
Try medical care overseas, you’ll soon realise you have no idea how good the NHS actually is.
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Well that can work both ways ;)

I can tell from experience that both were good, my problem in the UK is with GPs

On hospitals I've been always treated extremely well by staff and doctors, GPs on the other hand sometimes I think they don't really care and you have to push them to get what you need.

My experience with GPs is that they treat the symptoms and don't really care what is causing them.
 
My aunty is taking them on for a huge long list of very serious errors, some of them are comical in how bad they are.

For example, uncle sent home with a needle still sticking in him that was meant to be removed.

And no you cant feel a needle in you when half paralised after a strokes and you`re sedated.

But its not just that, everytime i talk to her there is a list of comical errors.
 
Since this is my area of expertise perhaps some of you might want to know how Clinical Negligence works.

A patient/relative finds a Solicitor but if they can go to them with a Complaints Letter of Response admitting a Breach of Duty then even better.
The Solicitor sends a Pre Action Disclosure which lands on my desk and we have 30 days to get all medical records to them.
If we know the exact cause of the claim we will look up any Adverse Incidents/Complaints on our NHS DATIX system, if there are any we can get my Solicitor colleagues to start the ball rolling at our end but usually we wait for the Claimants Solicitor to send in a Letter of Claim, in other words they have read all the records and they now want to go to the next step.
At this point our Trust Solicitors (not the ones based in the hospital) are notified and also the NHS Resolution.
Lots of correspondence between the Trust Solicitors and our department to make sure all Clinicians involved are able to give us reports.
After a while all these reports are sent to the NHS Resolution who also receive the Claimants Claim and they decide if a Breach of Duty took place.
This then becomes a tennis match where the NHSR say 'no' to some because we have the evidence and other times they will come up with a figure that the Claimant accepts - very rarely does it go to Court, in fact in 11 years I don't know any that have gone to Court.

So here's some roundabout figures:
This year I have around 240 potential claims on my list against my Trust.
About 2 out of 10 will go to a Letter of Claim, this means that 8 out of 10 have been thrown out by the Claimants Solicitor who find evidence that we didn't cause a Breach of Duty and of course many patients tell lies to the Solicitor.
Out of the 2 out of 10 that go to a Letter of Claim about 25% do end up with a payout.
So a quick addup says around 48 go to a Letter of Claim and only 12 get a payout out of a total of 240.

One of the things that makes me laugh is people saying they 'all stick together and tell lies for each other', I can tell you that Clinicians will tell on each other in a heartbeat because they daren't be unprofessional so those people who didn't get a payout haven't been fobbed off by the NHS all sticking together.
the 12 who get a payout are normally because the Clinician owed up to making a mistake.
 
Bouton Aide said:
Would you like to break your paragraph up into sentences next time please? That's very hard to read as a wall of text.
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I thought they were all sentences but here you go, I've put a space between the sentences for you.

Is that better? it looks stupid to me now.

I could put numbers on the front of them if it makes it easier.

Since this is my area of expertise perhaps some of you might want to know how Clinical Negligence works.

A patient/relative finds a Solicitor but if they can go to them with a Complaints Letter of Response admitting a Breach of Duty then even better.

The Solicitor sends a Pre Action Disclosure which lands on my desk and we have 30 days to get all medical records to them.

If we know the exact cause of the claim we will look up any Adverse Incidents/Complaints on our NHS DATIX system, if there are any we can get my Solicitor colleagues to start the ball rolling at our end but usually we wait for the Claimants Solicitor to send in a Letter of Claim, in other words they have read all the records and they now want to go to the next step.

At this point our Trust Solicitors (not the ones based in the hospital) are notified and also the NHS Resolution.

Lots of correspondence between the Trust Solicitors and our department to make sure all Clinicians involved are able to give us reports.

After a while all these reports are sent to the NHS Resolution who also receive the Claimants Claim and they decide if a Breach of Duty took place.

This then becomes a tennis match where the NHSR say 'no' to some because we have the evidence and other times they will come up with a figure that the Claimant accepts - very rarely does it go to Court, in fact in 11 years I don't know any that have gone to Court.

So here's some roundabout figures:

This year I have around 240 potential claims on my list against my Trust.

About 2 out of 10 will go to a Letter of Claim, this means that 8 out of 10 have been thrown out by the Claimants Solicitor who find evidence that we didn't cause a Breach of Duty and of course many patients tell lies to the Solicitor.

Out of the 2 out of 10 that go to a Letter of Claim about 25% do end up with a payout.

So a quick addup says around 48 go to a Letter of Claim and only 12 get a payout out of a total of 240.

One of the things that makes me laugh is people saying they 'all stick together and tell lies for each other', I can tell you that Clinicians will tell on each other in a heartbeat because they daren't be unprofessional so those people who didn't get a payout haven't been fobbed off by the NHS all sticking together.

The 12 who get a payout are normally because the Clinician owed up to making a mistake.
 
dLockers said:
lol CAVEMAN SEE BIG NUMBER, CAVEMAN IMPRESSED. CAVEMAN UNAWARE OF THE RELATIVITY OF BIG NUMBER VERSUS OTHER CAVEMEN.
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CAVEMAN UNDERSTAND ECONOMICS, CAVEMAN UNDERSTAND MORE MONEY SPENT ON "NON-MEDICAL" ITEMS MEANS LESS MONEY AVAILABLE FOR "MEDICAL" ITEMS WHICH HURTS THE NHS BEING ABLE TO DO PRIMARY ROLE.

CAVEMAN NEEDS TO SLEEP NOW, BRAIN HURTS FROM TOO MANY WORDS.

:D
 
My family as had a couple of actions, one was against the council for care home fees that my Grandad should not have had to pay. We managed to get the money back. But it took 3 years.

The other case was my cousin and the treatment he got, as well as a lack of empathy because they thought he was ill because of alcoholism. But he'd already stopped drinking and it turned out he died because of a botched colonoscopy procedure. The hospital/doctor admitted it after an investigation.

Being born disabled I've been in and out of hospital all my life, more so when I was a child. I can tell you that most people are well meaning doctors and nurses. But there are a small element that seem to not have the social skills needed to communicate properly with patients (usually this is were nurses come in to help explain things).

It can also be difficult to find a doctor with an actual interest in the subject he's talking about. Most see a problem, run some tests, check that you're within the 'normal' zone and thats it. They say there is nothing they can do. Whereas a good doctor will try and figure it out or refer the patient on to someone else who is interested to finding out what the problem is.
 
I don’t think the NHS is fit for service and it needs to be radically changed. No government can do this though as we hero worship the NHS , it can do no wrong.
 
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