NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Purgatory]

He'll need to go back to his sauces.

MILD has zero real world sources. He's always made things up or using other clickbaiting sites so called real info, kopitekimi is the same and some silly kid sat in his parents basement making up rubbish. So far for the 4000 series they have all guessed every possible variation that can be made, later they will all cry see I was right, while deleting all the wrong guesses tweets or videos when the real gpus come out. Seriously this is nothing more than a new generation with zero talent trying to make money from clickbaiting for ad revenue. This is the world now of the lazy youth that all want to sit at home and pretend to be social media famous and use their zero talent to lie to people for clicks.

Wake me up when Mr leather jacket has something to say about the new gen cards, till then I don't believe any of these so called leaks..

 

[Poneros]

I think the overall line-up will be well below 1k, at least in MSRP just like Ampere's first wave, except for the top end (x90/ti) which I'd probably guess 1499 again but wouldn't be shocked if they went straight for 2k. It's clear that most GPU buyers atm are not jumping at opportunities for expensive GPUs so in general I don't think they'll be too reckless with pricing.

 

[Rroff]

kopitekimi is the same and some silly kid sat in his parents basement making up rubbish.

kopite7kimi used to come out with information/insight it would be impossible to guess at that point and/or was often right on some specifics - again information which would have been impossible to BS - even when getting some information wrong, but lately they seem to just MLID style spew every possible combination of hardware iterations. I dunno whether they previously interned or similar for nVidia and/or previously worked in a related industry and at that time had access to some information but no longer do.

 

[Grim5]

I dunno whether they previously interned or similar for nVidia and/or previously worked in a related industry and at that time had access to some information but no longer do.

With MLID, that's a nope to any microprocessor company.

His work experience is making car seats for general motors and fluid pumps, valves and sensors for VOSS

 

[Rroff]

With MLID, that's a nope to any tech company

Was talking about kopite7kimi there - was a period where they appeared to have access to information it would have been impossible to guess at - but lately they just seem to scatter gun.

MLID obviously has just used a scatter gun approach from the start then refers back to the instances where they got it right and ignores when they got it wrong (pretty sure they pulled some videos where they were wrong as well though can't prove it - some I remember watching I can no longer find).

 

[Richdog]

MLID obviously has just used a scatter gun approach from the start then refers back to the instances where they got it right and ignores when they got it wrong (pretty sure they pulled some videos where they were wrong as well though can't prove it - some I remember watching I can no longer find).

MLID often refers to his previous videos for what was right or wrong and he is often more right than wrong and does appear to overall have good sources. The pulling videos sounds like a wee conspiracy theory on your part, in lieu of any evidence of course.

 

[Rroff]

MLID often refers to his previous videos for what was right or wrong and he is often more right than wrong and does appear to overall have good sources. The pulling videos sounds like a wee conspiracy theory on your part, in lieu of any evidence of course.

To be fair I've largely not watched his videos in the last year or so but he was certainly quick to point out where he'd got it right as if the only claim he'd made when I did watch his videos more often and he certainly wasn't more right than wrong when he was usually posting like 3 different takes on something with only one of them near the mark. While he seems to be able to pull up some decent industry contacts for current affairs when it comes to future stuff his sources largely seem suspect.

 

[Kaapstad]

I think NVidia have missed a trick with the 4XXX series,

With Winter coming they should be rebranded as electric heaters.

If your room needs heating just turn on the PC and get the GPU to do some mining or folding.

The only question when buying a 4XXX series card would be, do I get one with a 1KW or 2KW power draw lol.

Seriously GPU manufacturers need to get back to producing cards with a power draw below 300w which are easier to cool and sell at more reasonable prices.

 

[dazzlaa]

I think NVidia have missed a trick with the 4XXX series,

With Winter coming they should be rebranded as electric heaters.

If your room needs heating just turn on the PC and get the GPU to do some mining or folding.

The only question when buying a 4XXX series card would be, do I get one with a 1KW or 2KW power draw lol.

Seriously GPU manufacturers need to get back to producing cards with a power draw below 300w which are easier to cool and sell at more reasonable prices.

Problem is, the world has gone power crazy. All anyone wants now is more frames and higher settings. As soon as people started happily paying £1k+ for gpu's (me included), the future was set. Now I feel the same way; make things more efficient. The rumoured 400X power requirements are insane.

 

[kalniel]

There is a choice - to go for better efficiency we just need to buy the mid-low end cards. A 4060 or 7600XT etc. will likely give a perf/watt that would shame top end cards from two or three generations ago (and probably outright performance too, not to mention cost). It's only when you want additional performance on top/early that you need to bust out the extra power/cost.

Or put it another way, if you imagine vendors carried on on the trajectory they were on many years ago with smaller, lower power and cost, chips, they'd only be releasing these mid-low end cards. Think of the high end cards as an optional extra that don't affect you and you'll get what you wish for, while the part of the market that is looking for performance at any cost also gets something. Calls for them to not release any stupid power/cost parts just because you're interested in a different part of the market are a little short-sighted.

The only time we're really affected by other people buying parts we don't want ourselves is if game devs start making those parts mandatory for a good experience. I think it's pretty rare and usually solved with application of patience, or in the worst case, just don't play that game and if enough people think the same, devs won't do the same again.

 

[G J]

The complaining about leakers/youtubers about what they got right and wrong is getting to the point where its becoming just as bad as the leakers and youtubers they complain about.

 

[cfletch]

There is a choice - to go for better efficiency we just need to buy the mid-low end cards. A 4060 or 7600XT etc. will likely give a perf/watt that would shame top end cards from two or three generations ago (and probably outright performance too, not to mention cost). It's only when you want additional performance on top/early that you need to bust out the extra power/cost.

Or put it another way, if you imagine vendors carried on on the trajectory they were on many years ago with smaller, lower power and cost, chips, they'd only be releasing these mid-low end cards. Think of the high end cards as an optional extra that don't affect you and you'll get what you wish for, while the part of the market that is looking for performance at any cost also gets something. Calls for them to not release any stupid power/cost parts just because you're interested in a different part of the market are a little short-sighted.

The only time we're really affected by other people buying parts we don't want ourselves is if game devs start making those parts mandatory for a good experience. I think it's pretty rare and usually solved with application of patience, or in the worst case, just don't play that game and if enough people think the same, devs won't do the same again.

This is exactly my thinking, I want 6800 level performance but I'm waiting for the 7700 which should give me roughly the same performance with way better efficiency.
The obscene power draw from top end cards is always the result of a manufacturer pushing an architecture to the extreme to win the headline performance crown at the loss of power draw and cost.

 

[Kaapstad]

There is a choice - to go for better efficiency we just need to buy the mid-low end cards. A 4060 or 7600XT etc. will likely give a perf/watt that would shame top end cards from two or three generations ago (and probably outright performance too, not to mention cost). It's only when you want additional performance on top/early that you need to bust out the extra power/cost.

Or put it another way, if you imagine vendors carried on on the trajectory they were on many years ago with smaller, lower power and cost, chips, they'd only be releasing these mid-low end cards. Think of the high end cards as an optional extra that don't affect you and you'll get what you wish for, while the part of the market that is looking for performance at any cost also gets something. Calls for them to not release any stupid power/cost parts just because you're interested in a different part of the market are a little short-sighted.

The only time we're really affected by other people buying parts we don't want ourselves is if game devs start making those parts mandatory for a good experience. I think it's pretty rare and usually solved with application of patience, or in the worst case, just don't play that game and if enough people think the same, devs won't do the same again.

There is a 3rd way.

It is possible to build a graphics card with more performance than even the top tier 4XXX series card will have and still use a lot less power.

If NVidia AMD and the game devs put more effort into getting SLI or Xfire to work better on a dual GPU card this would use a lot less power.

It can be done, the old NVidia GT 690 was a good example which had a hardware solution to microstutter.

I had to laugh today when I looked at the 2160p scores on the old Heaven 4 benchmark,

The highest score belongs to 4 old Pascal Titans running in SLI, nothing else gets close and I can not see that changing even when the top tier 4XXX series card arrives.

GPU manufacturers need to be more innovative, bigger is not always better.

 

[Kaapstad]

This is exactly my thinking, I want 6800 level performance but I'm waiting for the 7700 which should give me roughly the same performance with way better efficiency.
The obscene power draw from top end cards is always the result of a manufacturer pushing an architecture to the extreme to win the headline performance crown at the loss of power draw and cost.

This^

It is getting to the point where governments need to step in and set power limits, they have done so in other areas.

 

[dazzlaa]

There is a choice - to go for better efficiency we just need to buy the mid-low end cards. A 4060 or 7600XT etc. will likely give a perf/watt that would shame top end cards from two or three generations ago (and probably outright performance too, not to mention cost). It's only when you want additional performance on top/early that you need to bust out the extra power/cost.

Or put it another way, if you imagine vendors carried on on the trajectory they were on many years ago with smaller, lower power and cost, chips, they'd only be releasing these mid-low end cards. Think of the high end cards as an optional extra that don't affect you and you'll get what you wish for, while the part of the market that is looking for performance at any cost also gets something. Calls for them to not release any stupid power/cost parts just because you're interested in a different part of the market are a little short-sighted.

The only time we're really affected by other people buying parts we don't want ourselves is if game devs start making those parts mandatory for a good experience. I think it's pretty rare and usually solved with application of patience, or in the worst case, just don't play that game and if enough people think the same, devs won't do the same again.

I'm not calling for them to not release that tier of card, I just don't recall a time when the power limits were so high! It seems really unjustified, especially as the capability is really high already. I get that generational leaps are commonplace but this type of power requirement leap to match shouldn't be encouraged. I thought the whole 'advancements in silicone' chase is that you can achieve more with less? Now its 'more and more' with more. However, we all know there will be a market for it.

 

[TNA]

@Kaapstad

So what your saying is you will not be buying a 4090/Titan next gen and get a 4070 instead?

 

[melmac]

There is a 3rd way.

It is possible to build a graphics card with more performance than even the top tier 4XXX series card will have and still use a lot less power.

How do you know? We don't know the power/performance of the top tier 4xxx card yet.

And if you are going to two/three cards, then you aren't really solving a problem. You aren't innovating at all. You are just going backwards.

This^

It is getting to the point where governments need to step in and set power limits, they have done so in other areas.

The poster you replied to, @kalniel, said it best, If you want change then stop buying those high end cards. IF the consumer keeps buying stupidly high priced/high powered cards, Nvidia and AMD are going to keep selling them.

 

[Kaapstad]

@Kaapstad

So what your saying is you will not be buying a 4090/Titan next gen and get a 4070 instead?

I may get a 4090 or Titan, they may be poor cards but still better than anything else available.

I really dislike my 3090 and 3090Ti but they are still very capable cards.

I was looking at my Titan V the other day and it is tiny compared to the Turing and Ampere cards yet the old Volta card has a bigger die than either of the newer cards.

Or putting it another way it is possible to have a huge Die, low power draw and good cooling in a normal sized card.

 

[Kaapstad]

How do you know? We don't know the power/performance of the top tier 4xxx card yet.

Easy

2 x 4070 dies on same card slightly underclocked and undervolted will make mincemeat out of a 4090

Model numbers may vary in the example above but the principle is the same.

The old GTX 690 outperformed the Kepler Titan by a good margin and still used less than 300W

 

[TNA]

I really dislike my 3090 and 3090Ti but they are still very capable cards.

Can help you out by take one of your hands Kaap. Happy to provide payment towards postage and packing