NVIDIA 4000 Series

Haz123 · 28 Jun 2023 at 16:54

A very disappointing card at this price point.

What I find confusing is that Nv can see the current line up of 4060ti/4070/4070ti/4080 are not selling well at all so why did they think another poor value product would change that? Do they think that average Joe who has been playing on his 1060 for 6 years will not look at benchmarks and just buy the next 60 class card ?

The 4000 cards are not bad products at all and the engineering behind them is excellent but the pricing is atrocious and the market is giving Nv a clear signal that they cannot sell a mass amount of cards with this high a margin.

Dg834man · 28 Jun 2023 at 17:01

Probably think that people will buy it cause its the cheapest 4000 card, pretty much a turd should be in the sub £150 bracket.

GhostDog1981 · 28 Jun 2023 at 17:21

Haz123 said:
A very disappointing card at this price point.

What I find confusing is that Nv can see the current line up of 4060ti/4070/4070ti/4080 are not selling well at all so why did they think another poor value product would change that? Do they think that average Joe who has been playing on his 1060 for 6 years will not look at benchmarks and just buy the next 60 class card ?

The 4000 cards are not bad products at all and the engineering behind them is excellent but the pricing is atrocious and the market is giving Nv a clear signal that they cannot sell a mass amount of cards with this high a margin.

Is the market really giving a signal though to Nvidia? They haven’t got the message and yet release more rubbish.

Murphy · 28 Jun 2023 at 17:29

Haz123 said:
A very disappointing card at this price point.

What I find confusing is that Nv can see the current line up of 4060ti/4070/4070ti/4080 are not selling well at all so why did they think another poor value product would change that? Do they think that average Joe who has been playing on his 1060 for 6 years will not look at benchmarks and just buy the next 60 class card ?

The 4000 cards are not bad products at all and the engineering behind them is excellent but the pricing is atrocious and the market is giving Nv a clear signal that they cannot sell a mass amount of cards with this high a margin.

Maybe because Nvidia are betting on people seeing how pony the majority of the 4000 series are and expecting them to buy one of the 3000 series cards that they've been stockpiling instead, and they're probably not wrong.

Andorphine · 28 Jun 2023 at 17:48

Murphy said:
Maybe because Nvidia are betting on people seeing how pony the majority of the 4000 series are and expecting them to buy one of the 3000 series cards that they've been stockpiling instead, and they're probably not wrong.

Correct, the 3060 and 3060Ti look like "good" value right now.

Mr Jack · 28 Jun 2023 at 18:06

Haz123 said:
The 4000 cards are not bad products at all and the engineering behind them is excellent but the pricing is atrocious and the market is giving Nv a clear signal that they cannot sell a mass amount of cards with this high a margin.

Is it? Nvidia's stock price is riding high. They look to be doing pretty well regardless of what enthusiast opinion of the range is.

Joxeon · 28 Jun 2023 at 18:20

Harlequin said:
Doesnt make any difference what `planning` was, when day 0 happened, the result was a $270 card.

Ross Thomson said:
Doesn't matter what they "were" going to charge. It's what they actually charge. I was going to write something different in this thread.

It does matter as it shows their intent and that they have the same contempt for consumers as Nvidia.

Let’s not pretend that the 7600 even for $270 is really any better than a 4060 for $300, slightly slower raster, worse RT and less features for for a 10% discount is not a deal.

The 7600 should be $160 and the 4060 $200 for them to be a decent buy.

GhostDog1981 · 28 Jun 2023 at 18:21

Joxeon said:
It does matter as it shows their intent and that they have the same contempt for consumers as Nvidia.

Let’s not pretend that the 7600 even for $270 is really any better than a 4060 for $300, slightly slower raster, worse RT and less features for for a 10% discount is not a deal.

The 7600 should be $160 and the 4060 $200 for then to be a decent buy.

Why do you think Nvidia is purportedly delaying “Ada Next” to 2025?

I think they know they’ll have no competition from AMD…

Joxeon · 28 Jun 2023 at 18:31

GhostDog1981 said:
Why do you think Nvidia is purportedly delaying “Ada Next” to 2025?

I think they know they’ll have no competition from AMD…

The years delay allows them to sell the years worth of 30 series cards they had left over, AMD are happy to do the same with their surplus 6000 series.

I would be surprised if there isn’t an agreement between them to work together to help facilitate this strategy as it was the same problem both companies were left facing and both stand to benefit from the collaboration.

GhostDog1981 · 28 Jun 2023 at 20:18

Joxeon said:
The years delay allows them to sell the years worth of 30 series cards they had left over, AMD are happy to do the same with their surplus 6000 series.

I would be surprised if there isn’t an agreement between them to work together to help facilitate this strategy as it was the same problem both companies were left facing and both stand to benefit from the collaboration.

Leaked roadmap seems to confirm Spring 2025 for next Gen on Nvidia slide.

Rroff · 28 Jun 2023 at 21:00

Even Linus can't bring himself to find any enthusiasm LOL.

Lightnix · 28 Jun 2023 at 21:03

GhostDog1981 said:
...

Seems to confirm Spring 2025 for next Gen on Nvidia slide.

Good news for Intel, though. Might give Battlemage the breathing room it needs to get some decent sales figures.

Joxeon · 28 Jun 2023 at 21:47

Lightnix said:
Good news for Intel, though. Might give Battlemage the breathing room it needs to get some decent sales figures.

I don't think intel will be concerned especially after what we've seen so far from AMD/Nvidia at the mid/low end.

Haz123 · 28 Jun 2023 at 22:18

Mr Jack said:
Is it? Nvidia's stock price is riding high. They look to be doing pretty well regardless of what enthusiast opinion of the range is.

The share price is not indictative of how many GPUs they are selling. It is the market predicting that AI will change all our lives and everyone will have to buy Nv products to make it happen.

NVIDIA revenue for the quarter ending April 30, 2023 was $7.192B, a 13.22% decline year-over-year.
NVIDIA revenue for the twelve months ending April 30, 2023 was $25.878B, a 12.4% decline year-over-year.
NVIDIA annual revenue for 2023 was $26.974B, a 0.22% increase from 2022.
NVIDIA annual revenue for 2022 was $26.914B, a 61.4% increase from 2021.
NVIDIA annual revenue for 2021 was $16.675B, a 52.73% increase from 2020.

Yes they had a large increase of sales during the pandemic and with mining but that is now over and sales are dropping. Will the AI sales make up for falling gpu sales? We will find out in the next year but I am not investing in Nv.

Calin Banc · 28 Jun 2023 at 22:31

GhostDog1981 said:
Seems to confirm Spring 2025 for next Gen on Nvidia slide.

I remember how one of the excuses for high prices on gaming cards was R&D cost (from fans of x or y company). There you go, from the horse's mouth, one architecture for all.

Mr Jack · 28 Jun 2023 at 22:34

Haz123 said:
The share price is not indictative of how many GPUs they are selling. It is the market predicting that AI will change all our lives and everyone will have to buy Nv products to make it happen.

Where did you get those numbers from, they don't seem to make much sense. How is there a '23 number? The quarter ending Apr '23 is worth $7.192bn which is listed as a decline, but 4x7.192 is roughly $28.8bn which is higher than any of the annual numbers listed?

I don't understand how this adds up?

I think the idea of rational markets is so much horse leavings, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the share price is nonsense, but for now it seems that the markets are pretty impressed by Nvidia so I'm not sure how the market is telling them that the 40xx series are pants.

BS Dave · 28 Jun 2023 at 23:06

Mr Jack said:
Where did you get those numbers from, they don't seem to make much sense. How is there a '23 number? The quarter ending Apr '23 is worth $7.192bn which is listed as a decline, but 4x7.192 is roughly $28.8bn which is higher than any of the annual numbers listed?

I don't understand how this adds up?

I think the idea of rational markets is so much horse leavings, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the share price is nonsense, but for now it seems that the markets are pretty impressed by Nvidia so I'm not sure how the market is telling them that the 40xx series are pants.

Not all the quaters have to be the same.

Haz123 · 28 Jun 2023 at 23:39

Mr Jack said:
Where did you get those numbers from, they don't seem to make much sense. How is there a '23 number? The quarter ending Apr '23 is worth $7.192bn which is listed as a decline, but 4x7.192 is roughly $28.8bn which is higher than any of the annual numbers listed?

I don't understand how this adds up?

I think the idea of rational markets is so much horse leavings, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the share price is nonsense, but for now it seems that the markets are pretty impressed by Nvidia so I'm not sure how the market is telling them that the 40xx series are pants.

Sorry I should have linked the source in my post.

NVIDIA Revenue 2010-2023 | NVDA

NVIDIA annual/quarterly revenue history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Revenue can be defined as the amount of money a company receives from its customers in exchange for the sales of goods or services. Revenue is the top line item on an income statement from which all costs and expenses...

www.macrotrends.net

Lot of information in there and you can argue X is up while Y is down but the point I am trying to make is that the 1 Trillion Dollar valuation is not based upon Nvs current sales figures. The market is prediciting/gambling that Nv sales and profits will increase, I highly doubt that large a profit increase will come from gpu sales so they must be gambling on AI being very profitable for Nv.

I personally do not see AI being as profitable as everyone else seems to think and Nvs stock price graphs look a lot like Ciscos did in the early 2000s.

Ross Thomson · 28 Jun 2023 at 23:46

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The issue is still the RTX4060 many times is slower. Basically Nvidia has replaced the RTX3060 12GB with a card only slightly faster,but cheaper to make.

Joxeon said:
It does matter as it shows their intent and that they have the same contempt for consumers as Nvidia.

Let’s not pretend that the 7600 even for $270 is really any better than a 4060 for $300, slightly slower raster, worse RT and less features for for a 10% discount is not a deal.

The 7600 should be $160 and the 4060 $200 for them to be a decent buy.

it doesn't actually matter. They could have thought about putting it out for £350 if they had wanted but they didn't. What it actually costs is all that matters.

7600 a bit faster in raster than the 4060 overall and £40 cheaper.

gpuerrilla · 28 Jun 2023 at 23:51

loftie said:
Ooof (time link)
They think of the 4060 as a 1650 or 1050ti class product, $100-$150 gpu not a $300 gpu. The cooler, fans shroud, fans and heatsink weighs 350g. Backplate is made from plastic, and the pcb has less components than a high end fan controller.

Yeah, watched this about an hour ago. Remember reading yesterday that one of the tech tubers said it doesnt even beat the previous gen (3060) in some titles - which is highly embarrassing. Kind of sums up most of the Ada range, and higher up the stack they are not bad products just way overpriced.