NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Tinek]

Who? Not noticed anyone here say that. Most just wound up about their underwhelming effort from what I can see.

That is fair to say, as they did show us they don't really take things seriously with pc gaming anymore - too late, too little and too expensive. My point wasn't about how good competition AMD is but more about how good it should be and how much power Nvidia gained in the past few years.

That said, I meant general internet forums, not just ocuk with people wishing AMD gone. We have on average a bit more sane people here.

 

[TNA]

That is fair to say, as they did show us they don't really take things seriously with pc gaming anymore - too late, too little and too expensive. My point wasn't about how good competition AMD is but more about how good it should be and how much power Nvidia gained in the past few years.

That said, I meant general internet forums, not just ocuk with people wishing AMD gone. We have on average a bit more sane people here.

Got to be mad wanting AMD gone. We need more competition, not less. I am glad to see Intel hanging in there. Hopefully they keep pushing. Can see them overtaking AMD's market share if they do.

AMD need to go back to their old ways and forget about the "we are premium" rubbish and start offering truly competitive stuff rather than reacting to nvidia all the time.

 

[Tinek]

Got to be mad wanting AMD gone. We need more competition, not less. I am glad to see Intel hanging in there. Hopefully they keep pushing. Can see them overtaking AMD's market share if they do.

AMD need to go back to their old ways and forget about the "we are premium" rubbish and start offering truly competitive stuff rather than reacting to nvidia all the time.

Problem is that AMD never got much from being much cheaper, people still avoided them or did not know AMD existed. It's a lot of marketing issues - Nvidia has unbeatable marketing approach so far and barely anyone then hears about AMD GPUs or see any adverts. All people still repeat is "unusable drivers", "crashing all the time". No positive marketing seems to be getting through. Meanwhile on Nvidia side of things you get "RTX, DLSS" and all other buzz words that everyone knows. Till AMD fix their marketing they will never get anywhere - cheaper or not.

 

[TNA]

Problem is that AMD never got much from being much cheaper, people still avoided them or did not know AMD existed. It's a lot of marketing issues - Nvidia has unbeatable marketing approach so far and barely anyone then hears about AMD GPUs or see any adverts. All people still repeat is "unusable drivers", "crashing all the time". No positive marketing seems to be getting through. Meanwhile on Nvidia side of things you get "RTX, DLSS" and all other buzz words that everyone knows. Till AMD fix their marketing they will never get anywhere - cheaper or not.

Cheaper would definitely help a lot. They would get a lot more praise online. The days when they were competitive as I speak they had 30-40% market share. That is a hell of a lot more than now and their marketing was just as bad back then.

I agree however. Their marketing sticks. Nvidia is so much better at it.

 

[Tinek]

Cheaper would definitely help a lot. They would get a lot more praise online. The days when they were competitive as I speak they had 30-40% market share. That is a hell of a lot more than now and their marketing was just as bad back then.

I agree however. Their marketing sticks. Nvidia is so much better at it.

They had bigger market share but what saved them were CPUs, not GPUs (aside maybe consoles). They didn't have any money for proper GPU r&d and the company almost went under. But now they have money and no excuse for performance, features and marketing. Plus, with horrible NVIDIA pricing they surely can still earn enough whilst being considerably cheaper. Drag prices down, don't chase them up - would be ideal for consumer.

However, when you look how much for example mobile phones cost and how much graphics cards and then compare how much r&d they need to spend on it... The times of cheap graphics cards are over, I suspect.

 

[Dicehunter]

They had bigger market share but what saved them were CPUs, not GPUs (aside maybe consoles). They didn't have any money for proper GPU r&d and the company almost went under. But now they have money and no excuse for performance, features and marketing. Plus, with horrible NVIDIA pricing they surely can still earn enough whilst being considerably cheaper. Drag prices down, don't chase them up - would be ideal for consumer.

However, when you look how much for example mobile phones cost and how much graphics cards and then compare how much r&d they need to spend on it... The times of cheap graphics cards are over, I suspect.

Unless there's a revolutionary breakthrough in fabrication that drastically lowers costs but even at that point AMD, Intel and Nvidia would still charge as much as they possibly can for their god, Profit. As they don't just want decent profit, They want profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit.

Corporations really are Star Treks Ferengi of the real world.

 

[Man-In-A-Teapot]

Several of these apply.

Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

For other uses, see Ferengi. The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition are a collection of two hundred and eighty-five sayings that form the basis of Ferengi philosophy. (DS9 episode: "The Nagus") The Rules of Acquisition were written by Gint, the first Grand Nagus of the Ferengi people. According to a...

memory-beta.fandom.com

 

[TNA]

Corporations really are Star Treks Ferengi of the real world.

Does that make Jensen the Grand Nagus?

 

[TNA]

They had bigger market share but what saved them were CPUs, not GPUs (aside maybe consoles). They didn't have any money for proper GPU r&d and the company almost went under. But now they have money and no excuse for performance, features and marketing. Plus, with horrible NVIDIA pricing they surely can still earn enough whilst being considerably cheaper. Drag prices down, don't chase them up - would be ideal for consumer.

However, when you look how much for example mobile phones cost and how much graphics cards and then compare how much r&d they need to spend on it... The times of cheap graphics cards are over, I suspect.

Was it not GPU's saving them back then? Bulldozer was crap

 

[Dicehunter]

Does that make Jensen the Grand Nagus?

I knew he looked familiar !!!

 

[Man-In-A-Teapot]

Does that make Jensen the Grand Nagus?

Hmm, maybe its the Grand Nagus crossed with this guy (though its tweed jackets rather than leather jackets).

John Sturgis

John Burgess Whitney Sturgis, Ph.D, was a guest professor of physics at East Texas Tech in 1989, known for his work on radiocarbon dating. Dr. Sturgis is initially a pen pal of Sheldon Cooper, before the child prodigy audits his quantum chromodynamics course. Dr. Sturgis is instantly smitten...

bigbangtheory.fandom.com

 

[Tinek]

Was it not GPU's saving them back then? Bulldozer was crap

I meant after bulldozer, when Ryzen came and saved the day. If that failed there would be no AMD today, as their own engineers admitted.

 

[Tinek]

Unless there's a revolutionary breakthrough in fabrication that drastically lowers costs but even at that point AMD, Intel and Nvidia would still charge as much as they possibly can for their god, Profit. As they don't just want decent profit, They want profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit.

Corporations really are Star Treks Ferengi of the real world.

You forgot to mention never ending growth, and eventually more profit than exist money on the whole planet. as that's the directions all these corporations are heading for, even though it's totally impossible.

 

[Apex]

Unless there's a revolutionary breakthrough in fabrication that drastically lowers costs but even at that point AMD, Intel and Nvidia would still charge as much as they possibly can for their god, Profit. As they don't just want decent profit, They want profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit on top of profit.

Corporations really are Star Treks Ferengi of the real world.

We're well past the point where are rationalisations about competetion and market share mean anything for price, stock levels don't matters either, AMD and NV just want every single dollar possible and that's all there is to it. So anyone thinking "AMD getting their act together" is going to bring down GPU prices, in particular their NV cards, are simply hoping and coping.

As you describe we are in a new age of crapitalism where nothing except exponential growth every year is enough.

Not sure why people still think AMD are interested in "competing" with NV in this space, they are not, and have not been for years. They produce a different product, a better one IMO, but 85% of people still buy NV.

The 5090 is going to be over 2K and no amount of whining about AMD is going to change that. Every gen its the same thing - it's AMD's fault I keep having to overpay for my NV card, no that's YOUR fault and NV are to BLAME.

 

[Twinz]

Manufacturers will charge as much as buyers will pay.

I remember how the Ampere price predictions were way off (way too high) because many people thought Turing was "the new normal"....then we got a $500 card as fast as last gen's $1200 card.

-Then we got the crypto boom, and manufacturers couldn't keep stock on the shelves.

I think the poor price/performance of this gen is a direct result of the ridiculous supply/demand situation of Ampere and RDNA2. By the time it was clear that crypto mining wasn't going to be there to support the buy-anything-at-any-price frenzy, it was too late.

I think what we get next gen will depend on how things are *actually* selling during this generation.

 

[fish]

They had the chance, during the 30 series launch debacle when there was a massive queue of people waiting to hoover up tech. They had performance parity, but then just did not produce cards in significant numbers. Imagine if and had dropped 10-20 times the amount of 6800xts on the market they did. All of them would have been snapped up. But they had so little faith in their own product that they chose not to produce it. Their market share may have doubled to 30/40% then this gen more people would see how good the products were and stuck with them, and there would be actual competition. Instead we have what we have, crumbs.

As I have said earlier in this thread I used to buy AMD just to try and keep competition in the market, but if they don’t care about their own products enough to launch them in meaningful numbers why should I? Especially when they launch later than the competition with the promise of upcoming features, once (twice,thrice) bitten and all that. I hope it changes but from what I have seen from the marketing department until there is a change at the top (of marketing) I fear a rinse and repeat for the next gen and so on.

 

[Nexus18]

They had the chance, during the 30 series launch debacle when there was a massive queue of people waiting to hoover up tech. They had performance parity, but then just did not produce cards in significant numbers. Imagine if and had dropped 10-20 times the amount of 6800xts on the market they did. All of them would have been snapped up. But they had so little faith in their own product that they chose not to produce it. Their market share may have doubled to 30/40% then this gen more people would see how good the products were and stuck with them, and there would be actual competition. Instead we have what we have, crumbs.

As I have said earlier in this thread I used to buy AMD just to try and keep competition in the market, but if they don’t care about their own products enough to launch them in meaningful numbers why should I? Especially when they launch later than the competition with the promise of upcoming features, one bitten and all that. I hope it changes but from what I have seen from the marketing department until there is a change at the top (of marketing) I fear a rinse and repeat for the next gen and so on.

That's because 80% of their stock was supplying the new gen consoles but yup, I would have had a 6800xt had there been a chance of getting one for MSRP on launch, thankfully there wasn't though and I went for a £650 3080 (worked out less once I sold previous gpus and the free cod game on) and over the past 3+ years RT and dlss has proved its worth to me, had I got a 6800xt, I would have been looking to upgrade sooner than later.

 

[fish]

As would I

 

[Amatsubu]

Well, so I picked up a sealed TUF 4070 for around 460 quid. I know it's still not brilliant price/perf as it's basically a low-power 3080 with fancier tech (that I'll actually use because I want to finally play CP with some RT) but I'll flog the 2070S and use it as a stopgap till 5000 series or whatever AMD comes up with.
Used 3080s aren't much cheaper in my country and come with a fair share of issues. 4070Ti didn't make any sense either with the same amount of VRAM and the pricing.

Grabbed a mint condition Dell S3422DWG ultrawide for 250 quid along with it as another cheap stopgap to see if I even like 21:9 at 34" before going QD-OLED as the Alienware DWF has too many problems for the price considering my user case.

PS5 + OLED gets the rest of my gametime so didn't feel like spending more than that, PC is mainly for browsing, music production and a couple of games that run like pants on consoles.



I want to say I'm happy with the upgrade considering the times but all I can say is that I maybe haven't been ******* in the **** all that much for the year or so I'll be using the card I know Supers are probably coming but wouldn't hold my breath for sensible pricing.

 

[TNA]

Well, so I picked up a sealed TUF 4070 for around 460 quid. I know it's still not brilliant price/perf as it's basically a low-power 3080 with fancier tech (that I'll actually use because I want to finally play CP with some RT) but I'll flog the 2070S and use it as a stopgap till 5000 series or whatever AMD comes up with.
Used 3080s aren't much cheaper in my country and come with a fair share of issues. 4070Ti didn't make any sense either with the same amount of VRAM and the pricing.

Grabbed a mint condition Dell S3422DWG ultrawide for 250 quid along with it as another cheap stopgap to see if I even like 21:9 at 34" before going QD-OLED as the Alienware DWF has too many problems for the price considering my user case.

PS5 + OLED gets the rest of my gametime so didn't feel like spending more than that, PC is mainly for browsing, music production and a couple of games that run like pants on consoles.



I want to say I'm happy with the upgrade considering the times but all I can say is that I maybe haven't been ******* in the **** all that much for the year or so I'll be using the card I know Supers are probably coming but wouldn't hold my breath for sensible pricing.

I think you did alright. Though I did get that Dell monitor for the missus not long ago brand new for around that price direct from Dell

One thing I can tell you is, boy the difference between it and the QD-OLED is night and day. Great for office work and a bit of light gaming though, but if someone said to me take it and a 4090 or the Alienware and a 7900 XT I would go go for the latter without hesitation. The image quality difference is bigger than RT or anything like that imo