NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Nexus18]

Guessing you don't watch the tech news.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752841505851453753

https://www.reuters.com/technology/ai-companies-lose-190-billion-market-cap-after-alphabet-microsoft-report-2024-01-31/

If you read the article you linked....

It's hard what to make of the news. The dropoff could indicate the start of investors becoming wary of tech companies overpromising on AI, especially without a clear path to monetization.

At the same time, Microsoft and Alphabet stocks have hit record highs following a year of AI hype. Microsoft beat Apple by becoming a $3 trillion company earlier this month, a massive vote of confidence for its doubling down on the tech.

It's still too early to tell if the recent drop in stock value is related to investors becoming weak on AI. Are they spooked by the daunting costs of expanding infrastructure to keep up with a surging appetite? Data centers designed to crunch data for tools like ChatGPT, which Microsoft has integrated into its software, aren't just incredibly expensive to build — they're also extremely pricey to run.

Essentially what I said. A lot of companies are now more aware of the costs hence why our kind of work is becoming more relevant than ever in terms of optimisation and right sizing infra to meet what is actually required. Can be the difference between a product costing £1000-2000 a month or if done poorly, seeing it cost £20000+. Like I said, the real showcase of AI is for cutting costs in bigger established firms than startup companies trying to make profit from selling a product (not say that this isn't achievable, it is but it's a lot harder as you need a good backing as well as getting clients to pay for it)

 

[Purgatory]

I do, kinda.

Blanket saying any company who has an interest/use for AI and whose stock went down is "AI stocks falling" seems a bit disengenuous.

I never said that, I said the A.I bubble is starting to burst, do you remember any other tech bubbles and what happened or do I need to do some history lessons too ? Not being disingenuous at all, just stating the facts as to what has started happening as you see from the news Tuesday was a comical day for the A.I Bubble. Doesn't mean it will not recover but it is showing signs that the extreme hype over A.I and investing is now backfiring for a lot of organisations and they were sold snake oil in some cases.

I work in the industry and know what I'm seeing from clients and organisations that were promised false hopes with A.I applications to make their organisations work in a more streamlined manner or make certain tasks easier or faster .. But reality is well they were sold snake oil. A.I is not going anywhere and it will find the correct applications, but a lot of companies/organisations have jumped onto the bandwagon they don't need to ride or the wagon doesn't take them to their destination they were hoping for (sold snake oil)..

Ok guys I have work to do too here , enjoy your day and stop being cheerleaders for companies out to profit from you when they are behaving unethically and taking the micky out of their customers that put them where they are now.

 

[Author_25]

Citation needed.

From my (admittedly limited) knowledge I'd probably argue the exact opposite. Happy to be proven wrong but from my exposure to work/people covering a lot of 'AI' usage that's the conclusion I've come to.

Meta are planning to have the equivalent of something like 600,000 H100s soon (of that over half are actual H100s)
Then you have AWS, Google and everyone else fighting for chips. AMDs competition to the H100 has it's limitations, the companies planning their own silicon have a long journey ahead of them. AWS came up with their own a while ago but, from anecdotal sources, they still can't get enough of Nvidia's cards.

Us consumers fighting over £800/£1200/£1500 cards, with warranties, retailer margins etc added in are really a drop in the ocean still.

I do, kinda.

Blanket saying any company who has an interest/use for AI and whose stock went down is "AI stocks falling" seems a bit disengenuous.

Financial Times reporting Rising Costs affecting plans as well.

Microsoft’s and Google’s AI plans clouded by concerns of rising costs

Tech giants tout new tools that will need significant investment as the technology takes hold

www.ft.com

Hopefully this means Nvidia and AMD will not put all there eggs in one basket, ignoring other business sectors.

The AI bubble has not burst but has hit its peak earlier than expected.

 

[0121danwilliams84]

Still sweet set of cards, lets all be honest! Just sweeter at the same (or much much lower) price a year ago would have been nice.

I added x2 Kolink fan splitters to my basket. (Not going to bother posting that picture when they come in the post though!) That's my current years tech expenditure.

 

[Rroff]

what sometimes get missed is that just because people think Nvidia's marketing tactics are bad

Also doesn't mean they aren't making money hand over fist I'm always amazed how much consumers will allow themselves to be screwed over and even try and convince themselves and others they aren't to try and make themselves feel better :s

 

[Zizilia]

It is all relative - I wouldn't spend over the odds on other hobbies either and some I do are far more expensive than PC gaming...

I have done, though after years of owning guitars which were cheaper i wanted one which was a bit special so stumped up the higher cost. Some might consider a £4K guitar over the odds. In my case it really does depend on the hobby, how much time i spend on it and how much enjoyment i get out of it.

 

[Author_25]

I have done, though after years of owning guitars which were cheaper i wanted one which was a bit special so stumped up the higher cost. Some might consider a £4K guitar over the odds. In my case it really does depend on the hobby, how much time i spend on it and how much enjoyment i get out of it.

I agree you buy the best, you can afford, to enjoy your hobby, but this generation of GPUs, I just feel that Nvidia and to a lesser degree AMD, are charging high prices because they can and I cannot help but feel I have to resist that attitude, by not buying, no matter how tempted I am.

Being able to buy a 4080 is not the problem but the feeling that if I did that I have been taken advantage of, would be.

If Nvidia had explained the reasoning behind the higher prices, with a little detail, many would have accepted this and moved on, but Nvidia have been too high handed and caught up in the AI boom to care.

GPUs are not the only problem though, do not get me started on motherboard costs, why do you need to spend £400+ just to have the Debug LED display as a feature, Why?

 

[Trickle]

RTX 3070 - Medium Die Size: 392mmsq - 55% full die cores - $499

Yeah Moore's law is definitely dead!

You've totally ignored the fact that the 3070 core was on an already out of date node with massive unsolvable yield issues that Nvidia were paying next to nothing for. Of course die sizes were bigger for Ampere.

 

[BeadyRoller]

So even though it's getting slated everywhere I do want to upgrade my 3070 and the 4080 looks my best bet for future proofing. I'm on a 1440p monitor. Which out of the super ranges shall I look at buying or are they all pretty much the same? That amount of choice is confusing me.

 

[Armageus]

So even though it's getting slated everywhere I do want to upgrade my 3070 and the 4080 looks my best bet for future proofing. I'm on a 1440p monitor. Which out of the super ranges shall I look at buying or are they all pretty much the same? That amount of choice is confusing me.

Depends whether you've got the budget for a ~20%, ~30% or ~50% upgrade

 

[Zizilia]

I agree you buy the best, you can afford, to enjoy your hobby, but this generation of GPUs, I just feel that Nvidia and to a lesser degree AMD, are charging high prices because they can and I cannot help but feel I have to resist that attitude, by not buying, no matter how tempted I am.

Being able to buy a 4080 is not the problem but the feeling that if I did that I have been taken advantage of, would be.

If Nvidia had explained the reasoning behind the higher prices, with a little detail, many would have accepted this and moved on, but Nvidia have been too high handed and caught up in the AI boom to care.

GPUs are not the only problem though, do not get me started on motherboard costs, why do you need to spend £400+ just to have the Debug LED display as a feature, Why?

Yeah i get that with the debug... I ended up just going with an X670e Tomahawk. Myself ten years ago would not have paid these prices, and yet i bought a 4070s

 

[Troezar]

I have done, though after years of owning guitars which were cheaper i wanted one which was a bit special so stumped up the higher cost. Some might consider a £4K guitar over the odds. In my case it really does depend on the hobby, how much time i spend on it and how much enjoyment i get out of it.

Of course in 2 years your guitar won't be old tech Much wiser to spend big on that than a GPU. I've spent more than my car's value on a hobby, but the gear will last a few generations so isn't going out of date any time soon.

 

[Rroff]

You've totally ignored the fact that the 3070 core was on an already out of date node with massive unsolvable yield issues that Nvidia were paying next to nothing for. Of course die sizes were bigger for Ampere.

You missed one of the important factors - the comparison to the top end die (and how top end the top end die actually is). The 2070 had a bigger die again.

 

[Rob_B]

I never said that

I never said you did, I was referring to the article.

Ok guys I have work to do too here , enjoy your day and stop being cheerleaders for companies out to profit from you when they are behaving unethically and taking the micky out of their customers that put them where they are now.

I hope that wasn't directed at me. I'm pointing out that Nvidia have, and will continue to pretty much own the market, that they are still making money hand over fist and the consumer market isn't really their priority so they don't "need" to do anything re: pricing for their profits.
I am firmly in the 'we are getting screwed by them' (the market, not just Nvidia) camp.

The AI bubble has not burst but has hit its peak earlier than expected.

I'm unsure if we're at a peak, what part of 'AI' are we saying has peaked? I've seen a settling in of things like required capacities (as someone mentioned earlier) everyone grabbed as much compute as they could afford and now we're finding out what we actually need for our specific use cases, a lot of large corporates (my opinion incoming) have barely hit their stride yet due to how long these things can take.



With the big players still buying and Nvidia gaining partnerships with some of them I think general hype has/will slow down but if we're talking behind the scenes there is (as evidenced by Meta's goal by the end of 2024) still a lot of money flying around.

From PCMag:

The 350,000 number is staggering, and it’ll also cost Meta a small fortune to acquire. Each H100 can cost around $30,000, meaning Zuckerberg’s company needs to pay an estimated $10.5 billion just to buy the computing power, not to mention paying all the electricity costs. The statement also provides a glimpse into how far the leading tech companies will go to develop new AI models. Other tech giants, including Microsoft, Google, and Amazon, also likely bought between 50,000 to 150,000 Nvidia H100s last year, according to research firm Omdia.

 

[Kelt]

So even though it's getting slated everywhere I do want to upgrade my 3070 and the 4080 looks my best bet for future proofing. I'm on a 1440p monitor. Which out of the super ranges shall I look at buying or are they all pretty much the same? That amount of choice is confusing me.

If you can't afford a 4090 (would be my choice if I absolutely had to buy a GPU now), then I would try and get a 4080 FE.

Or get the Zotac or Gainward at RRP here on OCUK.

All OOS though, so you either wait or assume the position and pay more (in which case, eat baked beans for a month and get the 4090).

Me, it would be the FE or nothing.

 

[Kelt]

Of course in 2 years your guitar won't be old tech Much wiser to spend big on that than a GPU. I've spent more than my car's value on a hobby, but the gear will last a few generations so isn't going out of date any time soon.

Beat me to it.

That guitar, if looked after, will still be capable of playing sweet music in a hundred years.

A £1500 GPU will be junk in ten years, if it lasted that long.

 

[Vertigo]

Indeed me too, I had the money 10 x over for a 4090, I refuse on principle, to refuse to be part of the problem and reason we have rising prices.

I admire your restraint. It's actually harder when you have the money and it's just down to will power.

I failed miserably

 

[Trickle]

You missed one of the important factors - the comparison to the top end die (and how top end the top end die actually is). The 2070 had a bigger die again.

Before I bought a 3090, at no time did I check the die size. Its an irrelevant statistic.

I bought it for 24gb and cuda. I wouldn't swap it for a 4080 super. As 16gb isn't enough.

I wonder how many of OCUKs check die size before a purchase. Yet on this forum its discussed ad infinitum.

 

[BeadyRoller]

If you can't afford a 4090 (would be my choice if I absolutely had to buy a GPU now), then I would try and get a 4080 FE.

Or get the Zotac or Gainward at RRP here on OCUK.

All OOS though, so you either wait or assume the position and pay more (in which case, eat baked beans for a month and get the 4090).

Me, it would be the FE or nothing.

Is 4090 overkill though for my monitor? I'm only on 1440p and 144hz? I'm tempted to just go for the 4090 tbf as that would last me so long it's worth the investment.

 

[Kelt]

Is 4090 overkill though for my monitor? I'm only on 1440p and 144hz? I'm tempted to just go for the 4090 tbf as that would last me so long it's worth the investment.

Not IMO.

Is your monitor UW?