NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Nexus18]

I can't wait until people shut up about cyberpunk. For most people it seems like a game they got bored of a year ago but use as a tool like 3dmark.

One average game shouldn't be the sole reason to blow a grand.

True there are plenty of other demanding good looking games out there that could be used, problem is when any of these demanding titles are used especially ones, which favour nvidia.... we always get people saying "old title, boring game".... Which I can understand especially if they are games with no replayability. Personally I wouldn't be looking at older titles going forward now (with the exception of path tracing titles like portal rtx, UE 5 titles like fortnite with hardware RT mode enabled), certainly wouldn't be basing a gpu purchase on titles with gimped/little RT like FC 6

I suppose it ultimately comes down to cyberpunk still being arguably one of the best, if not the best looking games to date (even without RT) hence why it is always the go to, same as was the case with "can it play crysis".

Atomic heart will be the new "cyberpunk" for 2023 and avatar the new "metro ee" for 2023, those among a few other titles like starfield, stalker 2, redfall, black myth, ark 2 will determine what I do as I can see most of my gaming time being in them i.e. if they run like crap even with dlss balanced/performance @ 3440x1440 on my 3080 and reduced settings, I'll see about picking up 4090. I've got a 55" 4k/60 oled, which I play on every now and again but my AW QD-OLED 175hz display provides a much more enjoyable gaming experience, that and 3440x1440 is far easier to run obviously albeit incredibly hard to get close to a locked 140+ FPS, even with dlss/fsr, only a 4090 could achieve this and even then in a good few titles, dlss and probably FG would be required. Of course 60 fps is perfectly acceptable but 140+ fps on qd-oled is so much more enjoyable.

I bought the card as I wanted amazing performance, I got a bonus at work so I thought why not, As for Cyberpunk I quite like it and the varied use of RT makes it useful for measuring performance.

A lot of people say it's boring but imo, that's just down to their play style and not fully understanding all there is on offer with different play styles etc. Some good videos demonstrating what can be achieved when you have put in the time and learned the different points/skill sets, weapons etc.

Spoiler

 

[Dicehunter]

It really is sad that people are having to justify their purchases here.

Everyone has different reasons for wanting/needing to buy new hardware, the reason why shouldn't be bought into question.

Its like asking a car enthusiast "Do you really need to buy that Audi RS3? - a fiesta will do the same job".

Pathetic really.

Of all places on a PC enthusiast forum

A lot of people say it's boring but imo, that's just down to their play style and not fully understanding all there is on offer with different play styles etc. Some good videos demonstrating what can be achieved when you have put in the time and learned the different points/skill sets, weapons etc.

I genuinely really like the world of Cyberpunk, I never skip dialogue, I don't rush anywhere, I take my time and soak in the atmosphere.

 

[Damien.]

Oh the 4090 is the standout card this generation by far. I can see its appeal but perspectives have been skewed. Look at benchmarks on games other than Cyberpunk and you will see that 3080 - 3090tis have been capable of generating framerates well above 60fps.

I said it earlier somewhere. It's like one minute you're getting 200fps, next thing youre on 300fps and telling yourself it was worth every penny.

It's just all gotten a bit daft.

My 3080 struggles to maintain 50+ FPS in Cyberpunk, 1440p RT ultra and DLSS set to balanced...

Fast paced scenes feel sluggish and gunplay isn't enjoyable.

 

[Hedge]

It really is sad that people are having to justify their purchases here.

Everyone has different reasons for wanting/needing to buy new hardware, the reason why shouldn't be bought into question.

Its like asking a car enthusiast "Do you really need to buy that Audi RS3? - a fiesta will do the same job".

Pathetic really.

If audi rs3s were driving fiestas up to 45 grand then yeah id be miffed too.

 

[Damien.]

If audi rs3s were driving fiestas up to 45 grand then yeah id be miffed too.

The price of everything has gone up. Cars included. People are either willing to pay the current prices for what they want or can sit and moan about it. It’s not going to change in the near future.

Anyway, I’m deviating from my point. If individual A wants to pay xyz for hardware then why should they have to justify it to person B. Everyone has their reasons.

 

[Hedge]

The price of everything has gone up. Cars included. People are either willing to pay the current prices for what they want or can sit and moan about it. It’s not going to change in the near future.

Could say the same about energy prices, food and and mortgages eh?

It's all going up so there's no point in moaning about it. Just pay up or shut up.

 

[Dicehunter]

The price of everything has gone up. Cars included. People are either willing to pay the current prices for what they want or can sit and moan about it. It’s not going to change in the near future.

Indeed, The days of decently priced high end GPU's is over unless we get some amazing technological breakthrough that makes wafers, Excuse the pun, Cheap as chips then prices are only going to go up and that's before factoring in R&D.

Could say the same about energy prices, food and and mortgages eh?

It's all going up so there's no point in moaning about it. Just pay up or shut up.

Those are different as those are artificially inflated, Even the energy companies have come out and said they are making so much profit they don't know what to do with it.

 

[Damien.]

Could say the same about energy prices, food and and mortgages eh?

It's all going up so there's no point in moaning about it. Just pay up or shut up.

I am talking about things people want, I.e. luxuries. I’d like to think if someone can afford a 4090 they aren’t to worried about the things you’ve mentioned.

 

[Hedge]

Indeed, The days of decently priced high end GPU's is over unless we get some amazing technological breakthrough that makes wafers, Excuse the pun, Cheap as chips then prices are only going to go up and that's before factoring in R&D.



Those are different as those are artificially inflated, Even the energy companies have come out and said they are making so much profit they don't know what to do with it.

You telling me the price of a 40xx series or 79xx series arent artificially inflated? Prices are going up but not to the point where a mid tier card should be double its equivalent in the previous generation.

Beyond that we are paying over a grand for a software licence to use DLSS 3.0.

 

[Dicehunter]

You telling me the price of a 40xx series or 79xx series arent artificially inflated? Prices are going up but not to the point where a mid tier card should be double its equivalent in the previous generation.

Beyond that we are paying over a grand for a software licence to use DLSS 3.0.

To a point yes but not as much as people think, R&D is higher than before, Cost per wafer is a hell of a lot more than before, It's only natural a company would pass those costs onto the end user.

I imagine if the artificial inflation or greed were taken off we'd still be north of £1000 for a 4090 though.

 

[Hedge]

I am talking about things people want, I.e. luxuries. I’d like to think if someone can afford a 4090 they aren’t to worried about the things you’ve mentioned.

In a market where people have reasonable options at different price points I think that's fine. The issue is £850-£950 is currently the entry level this generation.

Using your car example would mean anyone in market for a new car would be trawling an inflated second hand market or buying their fiesta at £85000 or their audi rs at £170000

I appreciate its a silly argument but pc gaming is becoming enthusiast only at this rate.

 

[GAC]

Cost per wafer is a hell of a lot more than before,

so whats nvidia paying per wafer now ? and how much has it gone up exactly ?

 

[Dicehunter]

so whats nvidia paying per wafer now ? and how much has it gone up exactly ?

If I can find the exact amount per wafer I'll post it but from memory each wafer costs around $20,000 and Nvidia is paying TSMC 10% more per wafer than TSMC were charging with their last gen and by 2025 that is meant to go up by as much as 25-30% extra per wafer.

My cost numbers are likely incorrect as I'm going off memory but it was a substantial rise from TSMC's 7/8nm wafers.

 

[Hedge]

To a point yes but not as much as people think, R&D is higher than before, Cost per wafer is a hell of a lot more than before, It's only natural a company would pass those costs onto the end user.

I imagine if the artificial inflation or greed were taken off we'd still be north of £1000 for a 4090 though.

I don't believe pricing is being totally driven by costs to produce. But i do realise everything is currently inflated these days.

The 4090 is a flagship, I am fine with that being over a grand. Its the lower tiers that are stupid now.

R&D should be funded by profits from the previous product, not by recouping the cost at point of sale down the line.

 

[Purgatory]

You telling me the price of a 40xx series or 79xx series arent artificially inflated? Prices are going up but not to the point where a mid tier card should be double its equivalent in the previous generation.

Beyond that we are paying over a grand for a software licence to use DLSS 3.0.

Anyone remember when 980s and 980ti came out and we cried foul then at the prices hikes and the 1080/ti's too...




I do and was really upset at the 900 series pricing so much i waited to end of the generation and grabbed a 980ti and stayed out of buying gpus till the 30 series for that reason, but want to hear the funny ?


Reality was when I updated I still paid the same per frame almost, as the 980ti classified I paid close to £650 for it at the time and by time I grabbed a card I needed the 3090 that was basically 3x the price of the 980ti and is really 3x the performance in most things to 4x max.

Nvidia has a plan to keep charging us by the frame now and has been doing it a good while now and sadly we have let them get away with it out of desperation to update our hardware for our needs.


Let's not even mention the 20 series mess and what we are seeing now makes that look like nvidia was being generous then .. 2080ti's were £1200 not their fake msrp of $999. That's when the real fake msrp game became the norm for nvidia because reviewers didn't put enough pressure on them even when the customers did then. Problem is this game will not stop unless we all say enough.

 

[GAC]

If I can find the exact amount per wafer I'll post it but from memory each wafer costs around $20,000 and Nvidia is paying TSMC 10% more per wafer than TSMC were charging with their last gen and by 2025 that is meant to go up by as much as 25-30% extra per wafer.

ok, so 10% price hike, obviously why gpu's have doubled in a couple of years. someone just hit 0 twice and tadaaah new silly prices.

 

[Dicehunter]

I don't believe pricing is being totally driven by costs to produce. But i do realise everything is currently inflated these days.

The 4090 is a flagship, I am fine with that being over a grand. Its the lower tiers that are stupid now.

R&D should be funded by profits from the previous product, not by recouping the cost at point of sale down the line.

Fully agreed !

ok, so 10% price hike, obviously why gpu's have doubled in a couple of years. someone just hit 0 twice and tadaaah new silly prices.

Yep it's silly, If a company raises prices on non flagship parts and they are still selling then they have no incentive to lower the prices of non flagship products... the future pricing of products is up to the consumer.

 

[GAC]

companies are there to make money, im under no illusion there.

what i do have issues with is when people try and excuse the prices we see with utter rubbish rather than just admitting the companies are turning the screws more and more because money.

and yes once the masses cut back enough prices should come down, but as we see with fuel prices when they spike, it takes a lot longer for the prices to creep back down. i doubt we will see anything resembling a good performing entry level card at a reasonable price for another generation, maybe two, be that prices dropping or inflation/wages/cost of living of everything else catching up and making them cards now seem reasonable.

 

[JediFragger]

but I could withdraw £2000 and use it as toilet paper if I want

Let's hang this ****er!!!

 

[Dicehunter]

Let's hang this ****er!!!

Listen, My perky booty needs a wad of crispy twenties everyday or it gets dry and chapped !!!!