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Nvidia rumour to be launching new GTX 11 series without ray tracing

https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-...ortant-but-still-thinks-nvidia-jumped-the-gun

Interview with AMD CEO Lisa Su who says many of the things said on this thread.

“technology for technology’s sake is okay”, but that “technology done together with partners, and really getting the development community fully engaged, I think is really important.”

this is underlying AMD’s previous line which is that it’s too early to be pushing with ray tracing just yet, and that Nvidia has gone ahead with it for Turing GPUs just for the sake of saying it has got the technology, as opposed to delivering any real benefits to gamers.

AMD’s argument is that it would rather focus on making its GPUs better performing across the entire gamut of games, rather than those with support for a specific feature.

If as AMD appears to be suggesting it has no immediate plans to launch a Ray Tracing product but is looking at it in the longer term then there is going to be a very small niche market for games designers in the short to medium term.
 
Flake87 said:
https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-...ortant-but-still-thinks-nvidia-jumped-the-gun

Interview with AMD CEO Lisa Su who says many of the things said on this thread.

“technology for technology’s sake is okay”, but that “technology done together with partners, and really getting the development community fully engaged, I think is really important.”

this is underlying AMD’s previous line which is that it’s too early to be pushing with ray tracing just yet, and that Nvidia has gone ahead with it for Turing GPUs just for the sake of saying it has got the technology, as opposed to delivering any real benefits to gamers.

AMD’s argument is that it would rather focus on making its GPUs better performing across the entire gamut of games, rather than those with support for a specific feature.

If as AMD appears to be suggesting it has no immediate plans to launch a Ray Tracing product but is looking at it in the longer term then there is going to be a very small niche market for games designers in the short to medium term.
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It reminds me of Nvidia pushing ahead with Gsync despite the Adaptive Sync was already on the way; fast forward to today I am now using Freesync on my 75" 4K Samsung NU8000. Where's Nvidia's option to use Gsync on large 4K TV?
 
revisiting the old business studies battle between VHS and Betamax it is as if NVidia are following Sony's abject failure to market a device in ignorance of the outcome it caused. Sony studiously disregarded all of the marketing feedback doing what its R&D team wanted the people to buy rather than what people wanted, and although Beta might have been the superior product, it failed because it did not address what customers wanted or were prepared to pay.
Customers simply refused to pay the rapacious prices Sony wanted and settled for second best at a more affordable price. It's a lesson NVidia appear not to have learned.
 
Flake87 said:
It's a lesson NVidia appear not to have learned.
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The real question is, do they have to? Nvidia is still selling their GPUs like mad, even in the hardware battles they have clearly & completely lost on both price & performance (e.g. 570 vs 1050ti). People are still mostly buying based on brand name recognition, not even knowing the model half the time, simply that it's an "nvidia geforce for £xxx". I think that they will, sadly, get away with their rtx buzzword-fest & higher prices.

AMD simply can't compete at a marketing & sales level, even though their engineering talent is superb and it shows in their products. Business-wise though, that's simply not enough.
 
Poneros said:
The real question is, do they have to? Nvidia is still selling their GPUs like mad, even in the hardware battles they have clearly & completely lost on both price & performance (e.g. 570 vs 1050ti). People are still mostly buying based on brand name recognition, not even knowing the model half the time, simply that it's an "nvidia geforce for £xxx". I think that they will, sadly, get away with their rtx buzzword-fest & higher prices.

AMD simply can't compete at a marketing & sales level, even though their engineering talent is superb and it shows in their products. Business-wise though, that's simply not enough.
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Indeed. Like the RX580 8GB vs 1060 6GB should really be no-brainier with the RX580 not being slightly faster overall and with more vram, together with Freesync available on lots of monitors without the additional price premium of paying extra £100~£200 for using Gsync you'd think it would destroy the 1080 6GB in sales, but nope people that majority of the people that buy Nvidia simply ain't interested in looking at the alternative offering.

Also obviously the lower power-consumption of the 1060 is very important, as extra 50W ish power consumption on the RX580 would make the fans spin so fast than it would deafen the users apparently...who cares about a card is faster, with more vram and offer better features if you become deaf from extra 50W of heat right? :D
 
Flake87 said:
So if they can make a card to compete against one which has only just launched then why wouldn't they make other higher end cards?
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Because the Lenovo leak is for a laptop, so completely different kettle of fish. And if a desktop GTX 1160 does exist, it'll have a little less performance in raster than the 2060.

Plus, and most importantly, releasing an entire line of cards which match the RTX in raster performance but without the expense of the actual RTX technology is just retarded. It completely undermines everything that RTX is about, especially given we an't actually use all of the RTX tech at the moment. If we were in a situation in which we were flooded with RT and DLSS games then it'd make a bit more sense because you have the viable option of paying for the new shiny shiny if you want to, but right now because we can't actually make use of the new hardware why would anybody pay a premium for it if an alternative exists?

Nvidia has gone all-in on RTX tech as the future of gaming, they are not going to undermine that, their R&D investment and their huge profit margins. Nvidia are greedy, not stupid.
 
Flake87 said:
revisiting the old business studies battle between VHS and Betamax it is as if NVidia are following Sony's abject failure to market a device in ignorance of the outcome it caused. Sony studiously disregarded all of the marketing feedback doing what its R&D team wanted the people to buy rather than what people wanted, and although Beta might have been the superior product, it failed because it did not address what customers wanted or were prepared to pay.
Customers simply refused to pay the rapacious prices Sony wanted and settled for second best at a more affordable price. It's a lesson NVidia appear not to have learned.
Click to expand...

It had better picture quality but was less useful as a recording device. It wasn’t the superior product.
 
McGraw said:
It had better picture quality but was less useful as a recording device. It wasn’t the superior product.
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That is only true of Beta 1, by the time they brought out Beta 2 which extended the dreadfully short recording time, the picture quality was equal to VHS. They also refused to include a timer on the recorders, making people pay extra if they wanted one, making it an even more expensive option. They refused to licence the technology to any other manufaturers, whereas JVC allowed anyone to produce it, thus introducing competetion and lowering prices.

It's a whole long litany of management huberis and a testament for the need to force engineers to listen to what the customer wants, not what they want to produce.
 
Flake87 said:
That is only true of Beta 1, by the time they brought out Beta 2 which extended the dreadfully short recording time, the picture quality was equal to VHS. They also refused to include a timer on the recorders, making people pay extra if they wanted one, making it an even more expensive option. They refused to licence the technology to any other manufaturers, whereas JVC allowed anyone to produce it, thus introducing competetion and lowering prices.

It's a whole long litany of management huberis and a testament for the need to force engineers to listen to what the customer wants, not what they want to produce.
Click to expand...

I know, I watched a pretty long documentary on it when I was ironing for my holidays.
 
Flake87 said:
That is only true of Beta 1, by the time they brought out Beta 2 which extended the dreadfully short recording time, the picture quality was equal to VHS. They also refused to include a timer on the recorders, making people pay extra if they wanted one, making it an even more expensive option. They refused to licence the technology to any other manufaturers, whereas JVC allowed anyone to produce it, thus introducing competetion and lowering prices.

It's a whole long litany of management huberis and a testament for the need to force engineers to listen to what the customer wants, not what they want to produce.
Click to expand...
It didn't help sales in the US when they refused to allow porn on Betamax but on VHS it was fair game too. Most Americans may be prudes in public but at home, behind closed doors? Perverts the lot of them.
 
Here's the link:

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-is-rumored-to-be-readying-a-geforce-gtx-1660-ti-graphics-card/

and an interesting paragraph

This latest rumor aside, it seems inevitable to us that Nvidia will eventually release a newer generation card without ray tracing hardware baked in. The bigger question is whether the rumored TU116 core is the same as the TU106 in the RTX 2070/2060 but with ray tracing and Tensor cores disabled, or if it's a completely new GPU. The latter seems unlikely due to time considerations, though it would be the more cost effective approach.

I think the bigger question is how powerful will NVidia make this new GTX range a 1060 equivalent is one thing but a 1070 up is another.
 
Flake87 said:
Here's the link:

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-is-rumored-to-be-readying-a-geforce-gtx-1660-ti-graphics-card/

and an interesting paragraph

This latest rumor aside, it seems inevitable to us that Nvidia will eventually release a newer generation card without ray tracing hardware baked in. The bigger question is whether the rumored TU116 core is the same as the TU106 in the RTX 2070/2060 but with ray tracing and Tensor cores disabled, or if it's a completely new GPU. The latter seems unlikely due to time considerations, though it would be the more cost effective approach.

I think the bigger question is how powerful will NVidia make this new GTX range a 1060 equivalent is one thing but a 1070 up is another.
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A little more believable. With a different die this was almost certainly developed with out RTX from the outset. The die size will be much smaller. They would have had just as long to develop this card as any of the together Turing cards so i don;t think time consideration is an issue at all.


This card would perform below a 2060, thus keeping the separation.
 
https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/17/amd-versus-nvidia-radeon-vii-7-nanometer/?guccounter=1

It would seem that AMDs new Radeon VII is a worthy competitor to NVidias RTX series and has out performed the RTX2080 in some games. There are now being more questions raised over the value of ray tracing at this time, and if NVidia wants to preserve its market share it cannot do that with a card costing around £1000 competing with another which costs half that and out performs it in certain applications.
It would make clear business sense to compete with the threat head on with a GTX 11 series and to keep the ray tracing for those who want it.

Nvidia cards are not just used for games - as the mining application proved, and the ray tracing and DLSS features are of no interest what so ever to these users.
 
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