Obesity

[slinxy]

Some kids are just amazingly stubborn when it comes to food and particularly veg.

I was in a takeaway a few weeks back and a pre-teen came in to pickup an order.

The lad just started begging the guy at the counter for pieces of donar meat.. one piece after another.. he was likely to be eating a pizza for his tea afterwards too.

I think it’s very much nurture when it comes to kids. Going up we never had takeaway or even meals out..

Had cereal for breakfast, walked to school, had school lunch then a home cooked meal for tea. We didn’t have much in the form of snacks or even canned food, let alone microwave meals.

One of my mates wife was shocked when she saw that I had a such few cans in the pantry.. and even those are for emergency use.

I just need to stay away from the microwave and oven meals..

 

[bainbridge]

Bought fish and chips on the way home yesterday afternoon and I managed to eat it all, though I was getting very full towards the end.

Still full now this morning.

 

[Felon]

Obesity is coming to people who over eat. Period.

One problem with this when compared to the currrent food environment, is that a lot of hyper processed junk food has huge amounts of refined carbohydrates in it.

This creates a situation where it's too easy to over eat and consume large amounts of excess calories, because the food doesn't make you feel like you've eaten - but you're still consuming the calories, (which you either burn or store)

Most people could sink a bag of haribo (400-500cal) in 5 mins and not feel like they've eaten much/anything, but try and do that with 2-3 chicken breasts (400-500cal) and you'll feel so full, the thought of eating more is horrible.

Essentially - on a proper diet, low in refined carbs, it's much harder to overeat - because the food you're eating makes you feel satisfied.

 

[Felon]

We still have a choice as to what we pick up from the market or supermarket. Blaming a food source (carbs) alone is not the right approach. Blame yourself is entirely fair, but as long as you're doing something about it you should be proud of yourself that you're getting out of the modern diet trap.

That's fine, however the problem is more complex;

For years the food industry has disproportionally targeted children when selling junk food (this has been going on since around the 80s/90s), because children lack the life skills to say no - they're far more likely to develop bad unhealthy habits at an early age.

Those bad habits are then far more likely to be carried over into older age - at which point the problems get very real.

When it comes to assigning blame - I don't think that helps, we need to focus more on educating the child, to solve the problem, rather than trying to blame later,

 

[Vidar]

It's all interesting, for sure. But the rearing and consumption of animals for meat is both hugely inefficient (in terms of land usage) and destructive (in terms of habitat destruction to create pasture, effluent production, etc.).

For a minority of people it seems like it could work, as a solution to global obesity it seems like a pretty terrible idea.

I think if you actually speak to farmers you'll understand that arable farming is far more destructive for the environment than raising livestock. I'm not saying there are no bad practices when it comes to livestock, but they can also use land otherwise unsuitable for agriculture. Besides if one cow, eaten nose to tail, can last one person 3-6 months on average, what's the equivalent requirement in grown produce?

I'm already on the way to those I think
Also don't forget the other issues like limb amputation from uncontrolled diabetes, kidney and liver problems

Are you saying that fat and protein contribute to diabetes etc and not carbs and sugar?

 

[tonys]

Are you saying that fat and protein contribute to diabetes etc and not carbs and sugar?

No, just that I have Atrial Fibrillation, so looking at heart attack and stroke as a result. I have diabetes, so if uncontrolled I would be looking at amputation (brother in law already has had toes amputated because of it).
I have had sugar over my whole life and research has shown that to be associated with dementia, or my bad memory could just be old age.

 

[Vidar]

No, just that I have Atrial Fibrillation, so looking at heart attack and stroke as a result. I have diabetes, so if uncontrolled I would be looking at amputation (brother in law already has had toes amputated because of it).
I have had sugar over my whole life and research has shown that to be associated with dementia, or my bad memory could just be old age.

Okay pal, thanks for clarifying. I've not read through the whole thread so forgive me if you've already answered this but have you looked into Keto or Carnivore? I put my type 2 diabetes into remission in 3 months among fixing a myriad of other issues.

 

[Felon]

Okay pal, thanks for clarifying. I've not read through the whole thread so forgive me if you've already answered this but have you looked into Keto or Carnivore? I put my type 2 diabetes into remission in 3 months among fixing a myriad of other issues.

Yeah, it's still a terrifyingly complicated thing to understand - from reading about diabetes for years, the one thing that becomes apparent to me, is that we seem to really know very little about it.

My best friend did the same as you, and also totally turned around his diabetes - whether it was the diet, or also the fact he was exercising, we don't know - but the before and after transformation was quite something. (This happened about 8 years ago, and he hasn't gone back to how he was).

 

[tonys]

Okay pal, thanks for clarifying. I've not read through the whole thread so forgive me if you've already answered this but have you looked into Keto or Carnivore? I put my type 2 diabetes into remission in 3 months among fixing a myriad of other issues.

No problem, I probably do the same.
Not looked at any diets in that sense. It is a bit of a minefield trying to determine what is the best way with some of my other problems but I did cut out the x5 two finger chocolate biscuits as a start. Of course I'm on Metformin so they reckon that when my bloods went to pre-diabetic levels it was because of the tablets not the fact I wasn't eat my 5 a day chocolates. I eat less than I used to but lose very little weight. Yes I am classed as obese(6ft and 100kg) but if you look at me from the back I'm skinny it's just when I turn you notice the belly.
I drink very little in the way of beer or larger(mostly small bottles rather than pints when it's hot).

 

[malachi]

Wait surely they want the high bmi people going to the gym?

Exactly, that's why I was like

 

[Vidar]

Yeah, it's still a terrifyingly complicated thing to understand - from reading about diabetes for years, the one thing that becomes apparent to me, is that we seem to really know very little about it.

My best friend did the same as you, and also totally turned around his diabetes - whether it was the diet, or also the fact he was exercising, we don't know - but the before and after transformation was quite something. (This happened about 8 years ago, and he hasn't gone back to how he was).

As someone who can't exercise in meaningful ways, I can say Carnivore is directly responsible for my reversing type 2 diabetes. When I was tracking my blood sugars I noticed a huge difference when eating this way, not only where the spikes no where near as high they also came down a lot quicker.

No problem, I probably do the same.
Not looked at any diets in that sense. It is a bit of a minefield trying to determine what is the best way with some of my other problems but I did cut out the x5 two finger chocolate biscuits as a start. Of course I'm on Metformin so they reckon that when my bloods went to pre-diabetic levels it was because of the tablets not the fact I wasn't eat my 5 a day chocolates. I eat less than I used to but lose very little weight. Yes I am classed as obese(6ft and 100kg) but if you look at me from the back I'm skinny it's just when I turn you notice the belly.
I drink very little in the way of beer or larger(mostly small bottles rather than pints when it's hot).

Any reduction of sugars and carbs is going to be hugely helpful, I remember the firey debate I had with my diabetic nurse after I put myself into remission as she was made up the metformin that I hadn't taken had worked so well for me haha. She literally couldn't understand that I wasn't taking it.

Then she tried telling me I couldn't do Carnivore as it was bad for me, despite seeing with her own eyes my bloods had massively improved across the board. She said I'd get heart disease, after seeing my CAC score had hugely improved aswell.

Obviously I'm not going to give anyone medical advice but, I'm not a freak of nature. There's tens of if not hundreds of thousands of people who do Carnivore all sharing very similar anecdotes, often backed up by bloodwork etc that show how great this way if eating really is.

 

[andybird123]

Remember sugar counts as carbs. That's the main issue. Sugar. And anything that is chemically close to sucrose is what is laced in most foods that are processed.

Fruits contain fructose but the digestion of it because of it's fibrous content reduces the insulin spike. This is why fibre is important.

Yes all carbs are converted to glucose in the human body so it's all effectively the same thing. Fructose isn't but then it's processed by the liver.
There's no insulin spike from fructose because it isn't converted to glucose in the blood, it's converted to fat directly in the liver and contributes to fatty liver.

Fruit we have now is nothing like the fruit from 1000+ years ago, it's all been bred to increase sweetness.
Same with most fruit and veg - broccoli is only a few hundred years old

 

[Shadowness]

Doesn't help with hipster tiktokers etc saying that everything is bad for you.

There's one guy who says broccoli is really bad for you and you shouldnt eat it.
Another guy says rolled oats are bad, and among the worst ways to start your day.

Sigh

 

[Defy Belief]

That's fine, however the problem is more complex;

For years the food industry has disproportionally targeted children when selling junk food (this has been going on since around the 80s/90s), because children lack the life skills to say no - they're far more likely to develop bad unhealthy habits at an early age.

Those bad habits are then far more likely to be carried over into older age - at which point the problems get very real.

When it comes to assigning blame - I don't think that helps, we need to focus more on educating the child, to solve the problem, rather than trying to blame later,

It's not the children's fault for not being able to say no, that's the parents fault for saying yes.

Assigning the blame is the exact issue, people do not simply want to take accountability for their actions.

Whether an adult or their child is overweight, there is only one person at fault - the adult.

I was on school run the other day and the one mum said to me that her daughter had a cupcake for breakfast because she didn't want anything else. No surprises that the mum is definitely in this obese category and I'm sure her daughter isn't far behind.

 

[Felon]

Assigning the blame is the exact issue, people do not simply want to take accountability for their actions.

For me this is part of the problem - we're looking at it the wrong way around.

To me, it seems absurd that we've created an environment - where if you don't have the most iron-clad willpower, and can resist every urge - you end up becoming addicted to "psuedo-food" (junk disguised as food), then you become ill.

It just feels like we've allowed the situation to get so bad, that the retort of "People can't control themselves anymore, it's their fault" makes sense, and it does because they're the ones lifting the fork to their mouths.

But to counter that - I'd argue that the environment we live in now - has changed so much in the last 10-15 years alone, we don't know how to handle it and as a result the problem has just gotten out of control, "willpower" for most people - simply doesn't stand a chance, when 85% of the food in the supermarket, is just an amusement park for your tastebuds.

 

[Freefaller]

That's fine, however the problem is more complex;

For years the food industry has disproportionally targeted children when selling junk food (this has been going on since around the 80s/90s), because children lack the life skills to say no - they're far more likely to develop bad unhealthy habits at an early age.

Those bad habits are then far more likely to be carried over into older age - at which point the problems get very real.

When it comes to assigning blame - I don't think that helps, we need to focus more on educating the child, to solve the problem, rather than trying to blame later,

I agree. I was fortunate to have been brought up in part of the world (the Med) where food is at the core of family life, food is fresh, and as a result poor habits haven't been instilled as such my lifestyle hasn't suffered from it.

I think the UK has become more of a foodie place (look at the Michelin stars in the UK now) but there's an inherent laziness for preparing and learning about food still.

I think there needs to be some blame or maybe accountability is a better word? However the food industry is to blame but then people don't vote with their wallets and succumb to the ease and cheapness of the "processed" foods.

You're right though better education is needed. At least a more European behaviour of family time for meals and more small shops per week rather than relying on large supermarket shops. However that's a massive cultural change.

 

[andybird123]

we don't know how to handle it and as a result the problem has just gotten out of control, "willpower" for most people - simply doesn't stand a chance, when 85% of the food in the supermarket, is just an amusement park for your tastebuds.

In the US, Tufts University of Boston recently released a scoring system of 8032 common foods, they gave Cheerios a "healthfullness" score of 95/100, Lucky Charms a score of 60/100 and Eggs 29/100.

I think the UK has become more of a foodie place (look at the Michelin stars in the UK now) but there's an inherent laziness for preparing and learning about food still.

I think there needs to be some blame or maybe accountability is a better word? However the food industry is to blame but then people don't vote with their wallets and succumb to the ease and cheapness of the "processed" foods.

I just don't think blame helps anyone. I felt blame and shame for decades and all it did was damage my mental health, I can certainly understand the whole "body positivity" movement if people are trying and failing on all the "advice" they are given to lose weight and can't do it the way they are being told, so that whole idea of "fat is healthy", "its genetic and there's nothing you can do about it" springs up as a coping mechanism. 2 years ago I was literally so depressed that I struggled to even get out of bed most days and needed a coffee and a sugary breakfast to be able to do anything at all. If that doesn't scream chemical dependence then I don't know what does.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

 

[Defy Belief]

For me this is part of the problem - we're looking at it the wrong way around.

To me, it seems absurd that we've created an environment - where if you don't have the most iron-clad willpower, and can resist every urge - you end up becoming addicted to "psuedo-food" (junk disguised as food), then you become ill.

It just feels like we've allowed the situation to get so bad, that the retort of "People can't control themselves anymore, it's their fault" makes sense, and it does because they're the ones lifting the fork to their mouths.

But to counter that - I'd argue that the environment we live in now - has changed so much in the last 10-15 years alone, we don't know how to handle it and as a result the problem has just gotten out of control, "willpower" for most people - simply doesn't stand a chance, when 85% of the food in the supermarket, is just an amusement park for your tastebuds.

Iron-clad willpower.. Resist every urge..

You don't have to have either of those things, it's also fine to eat these foods you speak of but you have to be responsible to know when enough is enough.

If you can't do that, take accountability that you are probably going to get fat, if you are fat and you still aren't responsible to know when enough is enough you're gonna get fatter..

Still a firm believer however, that a lot of these obesity cases are mental health related, then people see comfort in food and it just spirals.

As a side note I just tried a carnivore esque breakfast 4 eggs 4 pieces of bacon was nice

 

[Freefaller]

Yes all carbs are converted to glucose in the human body so it's all effectively the same thing. Fructose isn't but then it's processed by the liver.
There's no insulin spike from fructose because it isn't converted to glucose in the blood, it's converted to fat directly in the liver and contributes to fatty liver.

Fruit we have now is nothing like the fruit from 1000+ years ago, it's all been bred to increase sweetness.
Same with most fruit and veg - broccoli is only a few hundred years old

Gluconeogenesis also happens in the liver and kidneys. It's a perfectly normal process.. every nutrient is insulinotropic. Sugar is something your body reacts like crack cocaine. However if it's complex sugars (read complex carbs) then the spike is a lot lower and the impact on your body is far more mild and actually the insulin pathway is great for building muscle and transporting amino acids across the body.

If you know how to exploit it properly carbs are useful for health, fitness and weight loss because it'll help build muscle which creates a better environment for burning calories. The more muscles you have the more calories you can burn efficiently.

 

[Freefaller]

In the US, Tufts University of Boston recently released a scoring system of 8032 common foods, they gave Cheerios a "healthfullness" score of 95/100, Lucky Charms a score of 60/100 and Eggs 29/100.



I just don't think blame helps anyone. I felt blame and shame for decades and all it did was damage my mental health, I can certainly understand the whole "body positivity" movement if people are trying and failing on all the "advice" they are given to lose weight and can't do it the way they are being told, so that whole idea of "fat is healthy", "its genetic and there's nothing you can do about it" springs up as a coping mechanism. 2 years ago I was literally so depressed that I struggled to even get out of bed most days and needed a coffee and a sugary breakfast to be able to do anything at all.

I'm sorry you went through such a hard time. A lot of people suffer mental health issues for a multitude of reasons. However you didn't wake up overweight overnight.

But... Credit to you you've done something about it. Body positivity is dangerous, we shouldn't be celebrating unhealthy lifestyles.

Genetic conditions are rare/minority and an excuse people use.

Regardless of what you call it some personal accountability is needed nonetheless. Sometimes hard truths are hard to hear.