Obesity

Raymond Lin said:
If you did, do you think you will still be in the same shape as you are now?
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No, you're still missing my point. When I ate carbs I felt like I constantly DID have to over eat, the food I ate MADE me feel hungry again 2-3 hours later because of a HORMONAL response.

Protein and fat trigger a hormonal response that makes you feel FULL for many hours, the exact opposite. They encourage you NOT to eat again.

You may as well say;
"Just eat a bag of nails every day and you'll be made of iron"
And it would make as much sense as what your suggesting.

I think you don't get it because from the photos you showed you actually do eat a high protein low carb diet, as the bowl of rice you showed was tiny.
Your advocating a high carb diet when you don't actually eat one.

I physically couldn't eat double what I eat now in just meat and fat, I eat until I'm full and don't feel hungry till the next day at least, sometimes 2 days. It's not possible.

If you wanted me to add a significant amount of extra calories the only way I could do it would be by adding carbs. But that entirely defeats the purpose of what your trying to "prove" with the world's faultiest logic.
 
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Not every fat person fails to take accountability for their weight. I certainly don't expect the world to change to accommodate me, and the body positive movement is absolute nonsense. I can almost guarantee at my absolute worst I was the heaviest guy on these forums. After my injury and subsequent disability I hit 38st without realising it. I've lost close to 10st currently just from the carnivore diet as exercising in any meaningful way is next to impossible.

Here's the thing, I eat more now than I did before. I don't track calories or macros so may be in a deficit, though I doubt it, given the amount of fatty meat I consume each day. I'm not saying that calories don't matter just I don't think all calories are created equally.

The point is, it doesn't matter to me if I'm in a deficit or not, I'm not hungry and miserable all the time. I know if I'm getting too much or too little fat by whether I'm constipated or loose. I know if I feel awful it's because I've eaten something off plan like something that's been cooked in seed oils.

While I'm still obese, I feel better now than I did in my teens.
 
andybird123 said:
I don't know what part of this your not getting, im advocating this diet exactly because it allows you NOT to overeat. Carbs block leptin which ALLOWS you to over eat. Protein and fat trigger ghrelin which triggers satiety and helps you stop eating.

This is basic biology.
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This "basic" biology diet of yours is not sustainable for most people....and before you say "so many people do great on keto", think about how many people on the planet are NOT on keto? I am going to bet....there are more.

We all agree that for any diet to succeed, it has to be long term, and for most people, a drastic change like keto is not sustainable for several reasons. From financial, to life style, to religion or personal circumstances, or plain love of food with carbs in.

The reason I tried it for a week and then chucked it in the bin was because it was far too restrictive. If I go to my mum for dinner, she is going to cook rice, small bowl, but there are veg and meat on the table. The way I do it now, I eat as normal. I can go out to eat with my friends and order anything on the menu with no substation. I can shop as normal as I do, just eat less.

I basically can enjoy all the life's little treats (and I need to remind myself chocolate is a treat, not part of a regular diet). I don't want to go through life being bored of food. I like pizza, I get to eat pizza, a real pizza, not your fake pizza. I love ramen, I get to eat it, I get to eat a burger with the bun. I can basically eat normal, normal food, normal portions. That is the key, normal portions.

The key is self discipline, yes I know you are saying keto provides you with better self discipline because you are less hungry. That is you, and that is limited few on keto on the planet. There are billions of people who eat carbs and not obese or overweight. They have self control too. Their diet is equally as valid as those on keto surely? Or are you saying they are doing it wrong? Surely can't be if they are not obese.

andybird123 said:
No, you're still missing my point. When I ate carbs I felt like I constantly DID have to over eat, the food I ate MADE me feel hungry again 2-3 hours later because of a HORMONAL response. (SUCK IT UP, eat a carrot. I could probably eat something now, but I am not...it's simple self control, I have a target and I am doing something about it)

Protein and fat trigger a hormonal response that makes you feel FULL for many hours, the exact opposite. They encourage you NOT to eat again. (I do that too....it's call will power)

You may as well say;
"Just eat a bag of nails every day and you'll be made of iron"
And it would make as much sense as what your suggesting.

I think you don't get it because from the photos you showed you actually do eat a high protein low carb diet, as the bowl of rice you showed was tiny.
Your advocating a high carb diet when you don't actually eat one.

I physically couldn't eat double what eat now in just meat and fat, I eat until I'm full and don't feel hungry till the next day at least, sometimes 2 days. It's not possible.
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Have to? someone point a gun to your head or something? You didn't have to, you gave into your cravings, that's what happened. You are confusing the two. You wouldn't die of hunger if you didn't over eat. You didn't have to at all. This is like you turn "fruit and veg" and call it "addiction advice" from the doctor. Why are you doing this? Blaming someone else.

You clearly are not over eating these days. I know full well Keto diet makes you full longer, hence you are not feeling hungry. Hence you are not over eating on keto. But there are plenty of people who eat carbs but don't feel hungry as you do when you were on carbs. Do their experiences not matter? Are you saying their diet doesn't work? Like all my friends?

They don't over eat, they don't "have to".....
 
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Vidar said:
Not every fat person fails to take accountability for their weight. I certainly don't expect the world to change to accommodate me, and the body positive movement is absolute nonsense. I can almost guarantee at my absolute worst I was the heaviest guy on these forums. After my injury and subsequent disability I hit 38st without realising it. I've lost close to 10st currently just from the carnivore diet as exercising in any meaningful way is next to impossible.

Here's the thing, I eat more now than I did before. I don't track calories or macros so may be in a deficit, though I doubt it, given the amount of fatty meat I consume each day. I'm not saying that calories don't matter just I don't think all calories are created equally.

The point is, it doesn't matter to me if I'm in a deficit or not, I'm not hungry and miserable all the time. I know if I'm getting too much or too little fat by whether I'm constipated or loose. I know if I feel awful it's because I've eaten something off plan like something that's been cooked in seed oils.

While I'm still obese, I feel better now than I did in my teens.
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Well done for finding something that works for you
 
FYI, I don't don't get that bad feeling or starving feeling like you describe. Sure when I sit down to eat I can eat but I also eat and be full afterwards. Don't feel like I am low on energy or anything.

My calorie count in the past week and a half basically tells me that my normal meals give me my BMR calories, it is my snacking that takes it over. Couple weeks ago I ate a bag of chocolate peanuts in a day....it has 1000 calories!
 
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Raymond Lin said:
If you did, do you think you will still be in the same shape as you are now?

Choose burgers, lard, protein shake, avocado, bacon, cheese, , pick your poison. Just eat that extra 3000 calories on top of your diet, everyday for a month. Don't do any extra exercise.

What do you think will happen? Poop it all out?

Putting on weight by overeating isn't new....this is my entire point from the start.
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What he is saying is, people are fat because they eat too many carbs on top of their diet, removing carbs puts you 100% in a calorie deficit if you are fat, until you lose a lot of weight, then you will stabilize at a say 10% body fat level or so.

We have already discussed, its extremely difficult to overeat, if not impossible to overeat on a carnivore diet which he is on.

Your diet from pictures at a guess looks like 20% carb, i would say the average UK person is 50% carb

The more % carbs the easier it is to over-eat.

Edit: ultra low /Zero carb is a different situation as we enter ketosis
 
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Your looking at it backwards again. Not everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic, that doesn't mean some people don't need help.

Lots of alcoholics don't get help either, but that doesn't also mean that we should shut down all alcoholics support services..

How many non-alcoholics in the world are there? Why would giving that a number even have anything to do with why alcoholics should give up alcohol?

The NHS have started recommending keto.

I'm not saying low carb is the only way to eat (you yourself posted pics of you eating a low carb meal). I'm saying it helped me, it might help some other people if someone starts a "weight / weight loss" thread I will post in it how I lost weight and fixed a bunch of health / mental health issues on the off chance someone reads it and it helps them too.

You do whatever you want.

Why do you snack? No one has a gun to your head.
 
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andybird123 said:
Yeah it was a very low carb meal - if that was the only carbs you had that day it would be a keto friendly meal basically.
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I eat a pastry for breakfast, and then a bowl of multi grain rice for lunch....

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UEnhBeR.jpg
 
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andybird123 said:
No, you're still missing my point. When I ate carbs I felt like I constantly DID have to over eat, the food I ate MADE me feel hungry again 2-3 hours later because of a HORMONAL response.

Protein and fat trigger a hormonal response that makes you feel FULL for many hours, the exact opposite. They encourage you NOT to eat again.
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It's all interesting, for sure. But the rearing and consumption of animals for meat is both hugely inefficient (in terms of land usage) and destructive (in terms of habitat destruction to create pasture, effluent production, etc.).

For a minority of people it seems like it could work, as a solution to global obesity it seems like a pretty terrible idea.
 
FoxEye said:
It's all interesting, for sure. But the rearing and consumption of animals for meat is both hugely inefficient (in terms of land usage) and destructive (in terms of habitat destruction to create pasture, effluent production, etc.).

For a minority of people it seems like it could work, as a solution to global obesity it seems like a pretty terrible idea.
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A lot of land used for pasturing animals is actually not usable for growing veg.

Gradually farmers are getting in to regenerative farming which is actually good for the environment (no pesticides, more habitat for wild life etc,)

I'm also not suggesting it as a solution to the entire worlds problems, I'm saying I've done it, it's fixed my health, if someone else wants to try it it's up to them. I'll keep eating meat until they make it illegal and then I'll die of the government mandated heart attack or get dementia like everyone else.
 
andybird123 said:
I'll keep eating meat until they make it illegal and then I'll die of the government mandated heart attack or get dementia like everyone else.
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I'm already on the way to those I think
Also don't forget the other issues like limb amputation from uncontrolled diabetes, kidney and liver problems
 
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andybird123 said:
World population is 7.88 bn, so 7bn not obese or overweight would be about 11% obesity/overweight rate worldwide. Every country I look up has something like India 29% obese or China, 50% overweight or obese, UK 25% obese 62% overweight or obese, US 42% obese, EU 16% obese + 36% pre-obese = 52%

None of these numbers (of the most populous countries in the world) are adding up to 11%, its looking like 50%+ overweight or obese in most countries that we can get actual stats for.

Obesity and Abdominal Obesity in Indian Population: Findings from a Nationally Representative Study of 698,286 Participants - PMC

This study aims to determine and compare the prevalence and correlates of obesity and abdominal obesity in India among participants aged 18–54 years. Data were acquired from the nationally representative National Family Health Survey 2019–21. Age ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


Other (older) websites have india at 5% obesity, but that has shot up over the last decade.

All the other countries on the "low" obesity list are not very populous and most of them still have very high rates of "overweight".


How do you honestly think we are going to get from 11% to 51% in 10 years, unless 11% is grossly incorrect in the first place.




It makes me happy :)
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I'm glad to see someone that understands the severity of the problem.

Someone said earlier "not all people who eat carbs are obese, how do you explain that". Obesity is coming for them, soon. Not all, according to the stats, but most will succumb eventually.

Another analogy, would be a wood built house that's caught on fire in one corner. We can spend a lot of time arguing if the rest of the house will burn burn down, maybe some wood will be immune to fire, maybe some wood deserves to burn, maybe after the house has burnt to a crisp there will be a few pieces left unscathed for some reason. Yet the fire continues to spread.

Also, to the 'my taxes shouldn't pay for the obese' crowd, why don't you pipe down, you're in the minority :D. Me and the other 63% overweight citizens will be putting our vote where it counts, more services for us.

I mean, I don't want my taxes paying for skinny people's problems :cry:
 
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lawless50 said:
I'm glad to see someone that understands the severity of the problem.

Someone said earlier "not all people who eat carbs are obese, how do you explain that". Obesity is coming for them, soon. Not all, according to the stats, but most will succumb eventually.

Another analogy, would be a wood built house that's caught on fire in one corner. We can spend a lot of time arguing if the rest of the house will burn burn down, maybe some wood will be immune to fire, maybe some wood deserves to burn, maybe after the house has burnt to a crisp there will be a few pieces left unscathed for some reason. Yet the fire continues to spread.

Also, to the 'my taxes shouldn't pay for the obese' crowd, why don't you pipe down, you're in the minority :D. Me and the other 63% overweight citizens will be putting our vote where it counts, more services for us.

I mean, I don't want my taxes paying for skinny people's problems :cry:
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Obesity is coming to people who over eat. Period.

It doesn't need analogy. It really is that simple.
 
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Remember sugar counts as carbs. That's the main issue. Sugar. And anything that is chemically close to sucrose is what is laced in most foods that are processed.

Fruits contain fructose but the digestion of it because of it's fibrous content reduces the insulin spike. This is why fibre is important.

If you're able to cut out bad carbs which unnecessarily spike your insulin the off the charts without mitigation of other dietary sources then of course carbs are an issue. You still get an insulin response from eating meat just less of a spike.

Supermarket bread is awful, look at the ingredient list. Bread shouldn't last more than a day or to really. It's laced with sucrose based elements on top of that!

The insulin spike from 50g of plain rice Vs 50g of frosties is not the same. Your body doesn't react the same way. The whole gut brain axis is far more complex.

At least 40% of my diet is carb based. But they're mainly from fruits, things like rice and pasta and home made breads, pulses and so on. I don't have sugar in anything and don't have a sweet tooth. The closest to sweet I have is honey or jam or fruits.

It's about over.indulgence and UPF. UPF makes it so easy to overeat. The food manufacturers industry wants to sell as much as it can for as cheap as possible. Chemicals and fillers are cheap, and processing the food so it contains the food bypasses legalities etc...

We still have a choice as to what we pick up from the market or supermarket. Blaming a food source (carbs) alone is not the right approach. Blame yourself is entirely fair, but as long as you're doing something about it you should be proud of yourself that you're getting out of the modern diet trap.
 
Watch any old footage from the 70s to 80s and it’s a job to spot anyone overweight, probably because they all have fags in their hands but that’s another thing.
 
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