Obesity

[Tefal]

Exactly, that's why I was like

Guess they've decided your so fat that a heart attack is cheaper?

 

[Tefal]

This thread is pretty crazy if you take the posts on keto as gospel. Makes it sound like it's the magic diet and any other diet that even includes fruits and vegetables means you're contributing to things like fatty liver etc. Meanwhile keto has only positives with no negatives?

I just think it would be a lot more common in things like sports if it was really that efficient and effective. It's been known about for decades now, and there are a lot of studies on it.

Completely understand people doing it for diabetes etc but it’s by no means a cure all for obesity.

Keto is a pretty wild and out there situation for our bodies too.

Outside of the last 50ish years there realistically never been a point where any human could realistically achieve it for a life time.*

So making solid "this is absolute fact" statements about it seems crazy.



*no one could keep keto through ww2 so don't give me that it's been 100 years crap

 

[andybird123]

Keto is a pretty wild and out there situation for our bodies too.

Outside of the last 50ish years there realistically never been a point where any human could realistically achieve it for a life time.*

So making solid "this is absolute fact" statements about it seems crazy.



*no one could keep keto through ww2 so don't give me that it's been 100 years crap

Everyone enters ketosis every night unless they eat at midnight and get up at 4am to eat again and continue eating every few hours all day every day.
The only way to lose weight is through ketosis, thats exactly the process that pulls fat from storage to burn it, everyone who has ever lost weight has been in ketosis for a long enough period to burn that fat off. Every time you eat you stop and go in to the "fed" state. The keto diet, or intermittent fasting just seek to extend the amount of time that you spend in ketosis by limiting insulin response.

Historically, humans and hominids have not had food every single day and have had to go through periods of feast and fast (and up to 90% meat based), that used to be "normal". Like 4.5million years worth of history according to nitrogen isotope testing on bones.

 

[Bassmansam]

Bit hungover this morning, had a sausage and bean melt and a large coke from mcdonalds. Probably about 700 calories right there! But i'll do a bit of exercise and a have normal sized home cooked dinner. Everything in moderation as they say.

 

[Freefaller]

It's one of those things a good GP can learn for themselves. Learning should never end with formal training.
We can each learn nutrition and healthy eating for ourselves too,without going on a training course.

Like any professional CPD is vital.

People shouldn't have to be told by a GP though, healthy eating is not rocket science.

True - but as mentioned earlier a lot of people don't get exposure to the kitchen as children, nor do they really appreciate where food comes from or how it's made etc... Why? Lack of education I guess, but also lack of interest? Not sure.

 

[D.P.]

Keto/carnivore takes serious discipline and commitment, so trying to make it the cure for the obesity epidemic isn't going to work, people are obese because they have no discipline, and a billion people are not going to stick with it.
There's now the same militancy around carnivore as there is around veganism.

No, it is far worse around keto. They have formed a cult and are completely indifferent to the science

 

[dowie]

This thread is pretty crazy if you take the posts on keto as gospel. Makes it sound like it's the magic diet and any other diet that even includes fruits and vegetables means you're contributing to things like fatty liver etc. Meanwhile keto has only positives with no negatives?

There's always some new fad diet people believe in and often they'll have some hook that sort of makes sense.

With Slimfast or Weight Watchers they simply things via the shakes or set meals respectively.

With Keto there is some stuff about insulin spiking or whatever as the reason for why the diet is more successful, but conversely you can do an all carb diet (the potato diet) and that has it's own hook - potatoes are satiating, for the amount of calories you get from potatoes you can end up feeling very, very full.

If you buy a 1kg bag of potatoes that's only 700 calories or so, even three of those bags is then 2100 calories and therefore you're still into calorie deficit for the average man but if you got through 3 * 1kg bags of potatoes in a day you're unlikely to feel particularly hungry.

All these diets just boil down to the same fundamental thing in the end - reduced calories.

I would say it all depends on where the fat lies, if you where to check my arms or legs there is no fat on them. Yet I'm overweight according to the BMI, to me the only weight I carry extra is on my abdomen, even then there isn't much fat in my skin.

No, it doesn't depend on anything to do with where the fat lies, abdominal fat is dangerous though. I think in general we've basically normalised being overweight so "normal" weight is seen as "skinny" these days.

 

[tonys]

No, it doesn't depend on anything to do with where the fat lies, abdominal fat is dangerous though. I think in general we've basically normalised being overweight so "normal" weight is seen as "skinny" these days.

I have know idea if it's visceral fat or not but I have IBS and mostly feel bloated, a good dose of a tummy upset helps clear it out though.

 

[heeeed]

And that's a massive issue. GPs don't really know much about nutrition.

Many GPs know plenty about nutrition, but that in reality is not the issue. Actually most people/patients know enough of the basics, but the skill is actually about motivating to get behaviours change.

Talking about weight in appointment is nearly always from the doctors agenda around their presentation. 10 mins to get someone into a room find what is wrong with them and talk about how to manage which might involve weight loss is a very tight schedule, and probably leaves 30 seconds to recommend weight loss. The very few times someone comes wanting to lose weight they almost inevitably are wanting to look at medication or surgery and not about lifestyle changes anyway.

Dieticians won’t see people for weight loss discussions as there aren’t enough of them and are already snowed under trying to support nutrition of those underweight. They absolutely couldn’t cope with seeing people to look at weight loss.

Just as many areas of health are, obesity is woefully underfunded and is offered sticky plaster work on such as referral to online services, as that is all can be afforded and means you do it without actually using an expensive person. It’s not an issue NHSE are willing to actually make any effort with for the degree of problem as they try and put out various fires with their reactive plans, they leave this one smouldering on in the background

 

[Orangeade]

No, it doesn't depend on anything to do with where the fat lies, abdominal fat is dangerous though. I think in general we've basically normalised being overweight so "normal" weight is seen as "skinny" these days.

yes this is what i meant before and described badly. I felt skinny myself for a long time after losing the weight below 100kg but the actual reality is different. Well put.

 

[Jester*]

Been reading through this thread and thought I'd add my own personal experience.

Everyone is different, genetic make up, we also change as we get older, education when young and all that. At the beginning of this year I came to the conclusion that as I am getting older (37) the diet that I have been on has not been giving me the results that I had when younger compared to the amount of training that I do.

I was sat at 97.7Kg and 90-92Kg was my ideal weight. So I decided to work with a friend who is a nutritionist to educate me, work with me over the coming months to build a healthy sustainable diet that meets my needs as I get older. So far no calorie counting, with adjustments to meals, some much needed education and the realisation that I was under proteining like mad and I am down to 94.3kg. No foods have been cut out during this process.

I guess if you can, work with someone and build some healthy habits that will last. Get that help and invest in your body.

 

[malachi]

Guess they've decided your so fat that a heart attack is cheaper?

If they saw me in person or saw my health check results. I'm less likely to have an heart attack

 

[FoxEye]

yes this is what i meant before and described badly. I felt skinny myself for a long time after losing the weight below 100kg but the actual reality is different. Well put.

NHS calculator says my ideal weight is 10 to 12.5 stone (60 to 80kg). 5'11, and not a bodybuilder

When I say to people I could do with losing enough weight to reach 10 stone, they almost always say, "That seems underweight, you should probably stop at 12 or 13 stone."

Anecdotal at best, useless at worst, but that kind of response is the norm when I talk about weight loss goals.

e: I'm very reluctant to talk about what "programme" I'm using, until I've done it for long enough that I can be sure that the results are consistent. But in due course if the thread is still alive I'll add some detail.

 

[Malevolence]

Doesn't help with hipster tiktokers etc saying that everything is bad for you.

There's one guy who says broccoli is really bad for you and you shouldnt eat it.
Another guy says rolled oats are bad, and among the worst ways to start your day.

Sigh

Anybody that believes the **** they see on TikTok deserves to be out of the genepool.

 

[Freefaller]

Many GPs know plenty about nutrition, but that in reality is not the issue. Actually most people/patients know enough of the basics, but the skill is actually about motivating to get behaviours change.

Talking about weight in appointment is nearly always from the doctors agenda around their presentation. 10 mins to get someone into a room find what is wrong with them and talk about how to manage which might involve weight loss is a very tight schedule, and probably leaves 30 seconds to recommend weight loss. The very few times someone comes wanting to lose weight they almost inevitably are wanting to look at medication or surgery and not about lifestyle changes anyway.

Dieticians won’t see people for weight loss discussions as there aren’t enough of them and are already snowed under trying to support nutrition of those underweight. They absolutely couldn’t cope with seeing people to look at weight loss.

Just as many areas of health are, obesity is woefully underfunded and is offered sticky plaster work on such as referral to online services, as that is all can be afforded and means you do it without actually using an expensive person. It’s not an issue NHSE are willing to actually make any effort with for the degree of problem as they try and put out various fires with their reactive plans, they leave this one smouldering on in the background

Unfortunately GPs don't really know about nutrition, but that's not their job, they should be able to be aware of it enough to refer to a dietician / expert.

The healthcare system in this country is now not fit for purpose. We do not do preventative / proactive healthcare, it's always reactionary. It shouldn't be this way, and this is what causes even more issues unfortunately. As such it turns into a ever decreasing spiral and people are treading water just to try and keep their heads above water.

Obesity is a massive issue and it needs to be addressed - instead of accepting that it's "ok to be fat" we should be helping people to change their behaviours and habits.

 

[Freefaller]

Anybody that believes the **** they see on TikTok deserves to be out of the genepool.

Social media is the pariah of society unfortunately.

 

[FoxEye]

Social media is the pariah of society unfortunately.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that, as almost everyone these days is using social media.

It gives a voice to everyone, even the loonies.

 

[Freefaller]

Not entirely sure what you mean by that, as almost everyone these days is using social media.

It gives a voice to everyone, even the loonies.

I know more and more people that are coming off it - and you just need to look at the news, and blogs and so on to see how awful SM has made society. The algorithms etc.. create a very 1 sided view of the world, and you create echo chambers and a lot of self indulgent behaviours, entitlement, and generally pretty poor societal behaviours. It's not a healthy place to "hang out" - and provides a very skewed view on the world.

 

[Shadowness]

Not entirely sure what you mean by that, as almost everyone these days is using social media.

It gives a voice to everyone, even the loonies.

Things were better before it.

Watching the end of the Strade Bianchi cycle race yesterday going into Siena, literally everyone had their phone out. Just watch with your eyes! You'll have a better memory than a crappy phone video you'll never watch again!

 

[tonys]

Not entirely sure what you mean by that, as almost everyone these days is using social media.

It gives a voice to everyone, even [the loonies.]

You answered your own question there