OcUK Health Seekers: Post your progress pics

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 08:52

Gotta bear in mind I'm still carrying a fair amount of chub though. I'm hoping my arms won't get much smaller, but whilst my abs are coming visible again I've still got plenty of wobble over 'em!

Let me just have a butchers through my FTP........

Edit:
Here you go, best I can find:

The lighting in my bathroom is really too hard and comes from directly above, and as I'm so pale it hides all my lines. Shame!

Delvis · 29 Nov 2011 at 09:05

Well you seem bigger anyway.

I don't seem to have changed much

Will post something just before XMas

Dj_Jestar · 29 Nov 2011 at 09:53

Ketosis is anything but a myth. Your body practically stops insulin, so the fat just falls out.

Really, it works for fat cutting, but it can have some harmful side affects if you abuse it.

Steedie · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:15

Looking good Wills

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:17

Again, I disagree

If you care to have a read, leangains has a decent enough article on it:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/malcolm-gladwell-on-low-carb-diets.html

Key points (again, imo):
Studies show similar weight loss with widely varying levels of insulin and there is no evidence for high insulin causing weight gain. Weight gain and overeating causes high insulin, not the other way around. Some people in the low carb camp seems to believe otherwise, despite no evidence.

"...The dirty little secret of the Zone system is that, despite Sears's expostulations about insulin, all he has done is come up with another low-calorie diet. He doesn't do the math for his readers, but some nutritionists have calculated that if you follow Sears's prescriptions religiously you'll take in at most seventeen hundred calories a day, and at seventeen hundred calories a day virtually anyone can lose weight."

And the most important:
- Trying to convince someone who doesn't really want to be convinced is a complete waste of time. Using studies to back up your point when your opponent doesn't care for it is even worse.

But please, read the link if you want another perspective on the issue

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:18

Steedie said:
Looking good Wills

Cheers Hogan =)

P.S it's still November - post up your page again =)

Elixir · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:22

What's the time difference between your before and after pictures MoNkeE? I'm pretty much the size of your "before" picture at the moment.

'Wes · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:26

Just read that article, rather good read. I find i feel better on a low-moderate carbohydrate intake, with fat and protein being higher, it just seems to work for me.

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:35

Elixir said:
What's the time difference between your before and after pictures MoNkeE? I'm pretty much the size of your "before" picture at the moment.

About a year and a half, but I can't stress enough how badly I lived at times. If I got to start again, I would:

Calculate a lean but calorie surplus diet. Hit your macros and your calories. Say aim for 2700 calories, low-med carbs, high protein, med-high fats. Read Steedies stickied diet thread, top information in there.
Find a nice progressively-loading routine and stick to it. Routines like HST and Stronglifts incorporate starting from a low weight base and increasing the weight by small increments (2.5 - 5kg) per session to each weight. Progressive loading is brilliant for someone starting out and really helps maintain good form in your lifts.

I really wish I was on a good clean bulking diet and progressive routine back when I was lean and had abs

Delvis · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:37

MoNkeE said:
About a year and a half, but I can't stress enough how badly I lived at times. If I got to start again, I would:

Calculate a lean but calorie surplus diet. Hit your macros and your calories. Say aim for 2700 calories, low-med carbs, high protein, med-high fats. Read Steedies stickied diet thread, top information in there.

Find a nice progressively-loading routine and stick to it. Routines like HST and Stronglifts incorporate starting from a low weight base and increasing the weight by small increments (2.5 - 5kg) per session to each weight. Progressive loading is brilliant for someone starting out and really helps maintain good form in your lifts.

I really wish I was on a good clean bulking diet and progressive routine back when I was lean and had abs

Sound advice, and good for moi also

May give Stronglifts a go soon...Need to get my head around how it works first...

Any easy reading on that?

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:41

Not sure if any other members would agree with me, but here is what I wrote previously on the subject:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=20615573&postcount=4

Although we're getting a bit off-topic - any questions, post in the Gym Rats thread and I'll hop in there =)

Steedie · 29 Nov 2011 at 10:56

MoNkeE said:
Cheers Hogan =)

P.S it's still November - post up your page again =)

Ah I totally forgot to message you on Facebook

http://mobro.co/TobySteed

There you go mate!

Dj_Jestar · 29 Nov 2011 at 11:01

MoNkeE said:
Again, I disagree

If you care to have a read, leangains has a decent enough article on it:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/malcolm-gladwell-on-low-carb-diets.html

Key points (again, imo):
Studies show similar weight loss with widely varying levels of insulin and there is no evidence for high insulin causing weight gain. Weight gain and overeating causes high insulin, not the other way around. Some people in the low carb camp seems to believe otherwise, despite no evidence.

"...The dirty little secret of the Zone system is that, despite Sears's expostulations about insulin, all he has done is come up with another low-calorie diet. He doesn't do the math for his readers, but some nutritionists have calculated that if you follow Sears's prescriptions religiously you'll take in at most seventeen hundred calories a day, and at seventeen hundred calories a day virtually anyone can lose weight."

And the most important:
- Trying to convince someone who doesn't really want to be convinced is a complete waste of time. Using studies to back up your point when your opponent doesn't care for it is even worse.

But please, read the link if you want another perspective on the issue

*shrug* 4,000 cals a day, no exercise, and I lost 4 stone. Ketosis works. Fact

btw.. I'm referring to low insulin, not high insulin. There is no symmetry in the effects of insulin. Low insulin = fat falls out. High insulin != fat gets stored.

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 11:06

Well with scientific proof like that, how can anyone argue? Sod getting a controlled group of test subjects, we've got one guy with his individual genetic coding telling us that Ketosis works, people!

Steedie said:
There you go mate!

Done

Dj_Jestar · 29 Nov 2011 at 11:21

One guy? Try millions all with the same result.

All you've done is post a link about high insulin myths. Nothing about how low insulin affects the body. (and note that this isn't the only thing going keto does to cut fat, nor is it even the primary reason for the loss of fat)

Also: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm

more science, to counter your science.

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 11:49

Dj_Jestar said:
Ketosis is anything but a myth. Your body practically stops insulin, so the fat just falls out.

Really, it works for fat cutting, but it can have some harmful side affects if you abuse it.

Going back to your original point, you did focus on the insulin drop off being the main contributing factor, hence why that's the part I jumped on.

I can wholly believe it helps for fat cutting, but I don't believe it's anything to do with being in "ketosis". I think it's due to people being on a structured high protein/fat diet. You stick someone on a keto diet and another on a 20% carb, 50% protein 30% fat or similar and I bet the results are near enough identical.

The argument around ketosis on the link you provided seems to compare a keto diet where there is no fuel froim carbs, to a diet where a steady stream of carbs is expected - as if it's comparing a zero carb diet to a HIGH carb diet. In reality, I doubt very few body builders have a high carb diet, more will run medium carb, and the majority would taper carbs off in an evening; having the most at lunch.

Oh, and love the last line saying "MORE INFORMATION TO COME IN MY BOOK, PLEASE BUY IT" - agenda pushing much?

Dj_Jestar · 29 Nov 2011 at 11:54

Much like Malcom Gladwell?

Someone on a low carb diet (20% is low) is in Keto. Keto is simply the state of burning (stored) fat for energy, due to a lack of energy from other intake (e.g. carbs).

I think we actually agree ;/

MoNkeE · 29 Nov 2011 at 11:59

Malcolm Gladwell was the writer of the book being cross examined, not the person advocating the diet on the leangains website =)

Oh I think we do. It's simply the term "ketosis" that I disagree with. I wholly think it's a made up phrase to push a dietians book and the ridiculous notion that carbs are evil. I can understand the premise that if you don't have carbs, your body has to get fuel from other sources. I don't believe that your body enters a magical state where fat will drop off you by sitting in your office chair just by eating 4 steaks a day and a tub of lard

Skunkworks · 29 Nov 2011 at 12:28

Give it a new name, chuck in some big words, and suddenly Atkins in "in" again!

Dj_Jestar · 29 Nov 2011 at 13:09

"Keto diets" have long been in use. Way before Atkins published it.